Genetic History of Scythia

[Kristiina]

Genetic history of Scythia
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sci ... %200pubmed

Ensin ajattelin, että voi ei taas uusi nomadipaperi, mutta tässä uusimmassa tutkimuksessa on meidän kannalta relevantteja näytteitä Volga-Kamalta. Kyse on näistä:
LIA Pyanoborskaya Kushulevo III Volga Kama AB123 1st century BC – 3rd century AD U1b2d2 -- (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Kushulevo III Volga Kama AB124 3rd – 2nd centuries BC H6a1a4 NA (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Kamyshly-Tamak Volga-Kama AB125 2nd century BC – 2nd century AD U4a -- (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Kamyshly-Tamak Volga-Kama AB126 2nd century BC – 2nd century AD 196 calBC - 56 calAD K1c1e NA (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Kamyshly-Tamak Volga-Kama AB127 2nd century BC – 2nd century AD H10e2 NA (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Kamyshly-Tamak Volga-Kama AB128 2nd century BC – 2nd century AD T1a1b -- (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Kyrnysh AB129 3rd – 1st centuries BC 193 calBC - 60 calAD U5b1e1 (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Cheganda II AB130 3rd century BC – 2nd century AD G2a1 -- (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Cheganda II AB131 3rd century BC – 2nd century AD Z1a1a -- (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Cheganda II AB132 3rd century BC – 2nd century AD G2a1 NA (Pyanoborskaya)
LIA Pyanoborskaya Cheganda II AB133 3rd century BC – 2nd century AD U2d2 (U2d2-b1) -- (Pyanoborskaya)

Nämä ihmiset ovat todennäköisesti puhuneet jotain uralilaista kieltä. Kun vilkaisette sekoitusanalyysia, näette, että heillä on hyvin tasaisesti noin kolmasosa kra001-perimää. Myös fig 4 on kiinnostava, koska siinä on ainoastaan kolme ryhmää, jotka ovat lähempänä kra001:tä kuin Shamanka_EBAa eli Altain pronssikautista väestöä. Pianoborin kohdalla yhteys on voimakkain. Muut ovat Kazakhstan Berel_Pazyryk ja Russia Early Sarmatian. Jälkimmäinen on Pr10 - Southern Ural · R-Z2124 (R1a), H2a1f.

Tässä näkee taas sen, miten vaikeaa on selittää uralilaisia Altain metallikulttuureilla, koska se edellyttäisi sitä, että kra001 ei sekoittuisi kulttuuriin, jonka osa se olisi ja alueella, jossa kielet alkavat levitä, tätä perimää kuitenkin olisi erittäin paljon, jopa yksinomaisesti.

Tässä uudessa skyyttipaperissa Pianobor on mallinettu 33 % kra001 + 67 % MiddleDon_LBA. Tämän mukaan rautakautinen uralinkielinen väestö Kamalla syntyy puhtaasta kra001-perimästä ja Srubna-tyyppisestä kulttuurista (= Don Forest-Steppe Srubnaya culture), joka vallitsi keskisellä Donilla 1900-1100 BC. Pianoborin väestön mallintamiseen ei siis tarvita mitään itäisempiä väestöjä. Vertailun vuoksi skyyttien valtavirta, Scy_Major, mallinnetaan Altain pronssikautisella perimällä Shamanka EBA:lla sekä Sintashtalla ja Keski-Aasian Bustanilla.

On tietenkin harmi, että tässä uudessä paperissa on jätetty analysoimatta Pianoborin isälinjat. Oletan kuitenkin vanhan tiedon perusteella, että ne ovat pääasiassa N-linjoja, koska netissä joskus aktiivinen Ryukendo otti minuun huhtikuussa 2020 yhteyttä ja kysyi mielipidettäni Pianoborin näytteistä, joissa oli N-linjoja. Hän kirjoitti niistä näin:
Then, the post-Ananyino PyanyBor samples from the Volga have a pulse of modern East Asian ancestry from the East, are almost all N1a1a, and fall squarely on the Uralic cline, with no more excess ANE than modern Volga Uralics do (almost none).
Tästä voisi päätellä, että hän on nähnyt myös Ananjinon näytteitä, joissa ei ilmeisesti ole itäistä perimää.

Uudet skyyttinäytteet ovat saatavilla NCBI:lla (Scythian DNA on NCBI now). Koska en itse analysoi näytteitä, en tiedä, mitä se tarkoittaa, mutta voisiko se tarkoittaa sitä, että amatöörit pääsevät jo näytteisiin käsiksi. Jos näin on, voisi toivoa, että joku analysoisi Pianoborin isälinjat. Tätä varten kannattanee pitää silmällä Genarchivistin ketjua: https://genarchivist.net/showthread.php?tid=1828

Minun mielestäni nykyisellä näytöllä kra001-perimä ilmestyy etelämmäksi Uralin pohjoisista metsistä. Toisaalta minulla ei tunnetusti ole tarvetta sitoa uralilaista kantakieltä N-isälinjoihin.

[Kristiina]

Koska viime aikoina on kovasti tarjottu Altaita kantauralin paikaksi, en voi olla kopioimatta Ryukendon minulle jo 2020 esittämää dilemmaa:

In the EBA to MLBA (4000-3000 ya), an Okunevo-like population dominates the Central forest-steppe from the Minusinsk basin to the Baraba Forest-Steppe. They constitute the Elunino, Okunevo and Chernoozere (Krotov) cultures, being admixtures of Yamnaya and Sintashta-type components with local ANE-rich HG substrate from the Neolithic and Eneolithic.

These samples have produced N1a1a, N1a2b, Q1b1, R1a and R1b. Of these, Q is most common, and N is uncommon. This circle of populations are almost a perfect autosomal match to Bolshoy Oleni Ostrov.

At the same time, in the Eneolithic and BA in the East, near lake Baikal, the proportion of N1a1a is much higher in the Hunter-gatherers there, and the East Asian ancestry there is "modern". Some of this ancestry, that shared drift with Nganasans, expands in the Ymyakhtakh. So in the BA, Eastern Siberia is Nganasan-like, the Baikal region is Ust_Ida- or Shamanka_EBA-like and the Minusinsk Basin to the Baraba Steppes are still very rich in ANE, like Okunevo, while the Southern Urals are dominated by WSHG.

Tässä on vielä Google-käännös venäjänkielisestä Pianoborin kulttuurin kuvauksesta:

P'yanoborskaya culture

The P'yanoborskaya culture was named after the burial grounds in the village of P'yany Bor (now Krasny Bor) in the Agryz district of Tatarstan. Its territory mainly covers the Lower Belaya and Middle Kama. The date of the P'yanoborskaya culture is determined by most archaeologists within the 2nd century BC - 3rd century AD.
Mapping of monuments shows that the bearers of this culture usually settled along the banks of the Kama, Belaya and the valleys of their tributaries. The main centers of life of the bearers of the P'yanoborskaya culture were settlements that usually occupied the edges of meadow or bedrock terraces. Judging by the distribution of surface material, the average area of the settlements was about 5,000 square meters. The settlements usually occupied the capes of bedrock terraces. From the floor side of the site, they were fenced with one, two or three ramparts; some settlements had ring ramparts.
The cultural layers on many of them are very weak, which indicates that they were used as shelters. In times of danger, the population of the settlements went behind the walls of the hillforts.
Excavations of the settlements of the Pyanoborsk culture of Tatarstan were practically not carried out, they are also poorly studied in Udmurtia and Bashkortostan. The currently available settlement material allows us to assert that the main dwellings of the studied population were above-ground quadrangular log houses.
The remains of structures for obtaining iron discovered at the hillfort deserve attention. They were paired pits. Ore and coal were placed in one of them in layers and set on fire. The second part, separated from the first, served as a pre-furnace room. From this side, air was supplied through holes (clay tubes) from the bellows. The iron reduced from the ore flowed into the lower part of the furnace room. After the furnace cooled, an iron ingot (bloom) was taken out from its bottom.
The Pianoborsk population finally stopped using bronze tools and weapons. But bronze casting production survived and was mainly associated with the production of jewelry and costume accessories. Remains of bone (arrowheads and piercers), stone (grinding stones, grain grinders) tools and clay pottery were also found in the settlements. The latter, round-bottomed, with admixtures of crushed shells in the dough, sometimes decorated with pit impressions along the neck, was made by hand.
The economy of the population of the Pianoborsk community was complex. It included cattle breeding, hunting, fishing, and gathering. The question of agriculture among the tribes under study remains open. Expressive forms of tillage and harvesting tools have not yet been recorded at the sites of the studied circle. One can only note the finds of spelt grains from the Novo-Kabanovsky settlement in the lower reaches of the river. White, dating back to the Ananyino-P'yanoborsk period.
The presence of cattle breeding is documented by the finds of bones of domestic animals in the cultural layers of the settlement. Osteologists have recorded the remains of horses, cattle, pigs, and small cattle. Horse breeding is also evidenced by the finds of bits in burials. Judging by the available materials, horses were used not only for meat, but also for riding.
The P'yanoborsk burial grounds have been studied more fully. The main part of the P'yanoborsk burial grounds is located in Bashkortostan and Udmurtia. Seven P'yanoborsk burial grounds have been recorded in Tatarstan.
The burial grounds were located on the edges of meadow terraces.
No external signs of graves have been recorded on their surface, possibly due to the fact that most of the territories have been plowed for a long time. During excavations of the Afoninsky burial ground in Udmurtia and the Deukovsky II burial ground in Tatarstan, remains of post holes were recorded. Therefore, there is reason to believe that in ancient times some structures were built over the graves. On the surface of the Deukovsky II burial ground, remains of three fire pits up to 70 cm in diameter were recorded. In the filling of one of the fire pits, the bones of a cow and a horse were found; in the middle of the second - the remains of a pole. At the level of the buried soil in the area of the burial ground in question, a cluster of sandstone stones was discovered. On the surface of some burial grounds, remains of earthen pits associated with funeral feasts, as well as ceramics and animal bones were traced. The last group of finds, apparently, represents the remains of ritual food placed in vessels. The work of researchers has established that in the area of the burial grounds, groups of burials left by large patriarchal families are distinguished. Each of the families had its own plot in the cemetery. P'yanobor burials were usually made in relatively small rectangular pits with steep walls and flat bottoms, up to 1 m deep. Some of the buried, accompanied by rich inventory and apparently belonging to special social groups of the population, were found in large and deep pits.
The majority of burials were made according to the rite of inhumation, but cremations, partial and secondary, were also found. During excavations it was possible to reveal that the buried were wrapped in bast, birch bark, and sometimes placed in wooden coffins.
Clayware and tools were sometimes placed in the graves

[Jaska]

Genetic history of Scythia
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sci ... %200pubmed

Ensin ajattelin, että voi ei taas uusi nomadipaperi, mutta tässä uusimmassa tutkimuksessa on meidän kannalta relevantteja näytteitä Volga-Kamalta.

Kiitos! Oma suhtautumiseni oli samoilla linjoilla.

Nämä ihmiset ovat todennäköisesti puhuneet jotain uralilaista kieltä.

Joo, tuo aika ja paikka viittaavat vahvasti siihen. Jokin (para-)permiläinen tai jopa (para-)unkarilainen porukka lienevät vahvimmat ehdokkaat, vaikka unkarin linja voitaisiin johtaa myös vasta hieman myöhemmin Uralin itärinteiltä. Toki myös jokin sittemmin turkkilaisekspansion alle sammunut kadonnut uralilainen poppoo nykyhaarojen ulkopuolelta voisi olla kyseessä.

Tässä uudessa skyyttipaperissa Pianobor on mallinettu 33 % kra001 + 67 % MiddleDon_LBA. Tämän mukaan rautakautinen uralinkielinen väestö Kamalla syntyy puhtaasta kra001-perimästä ja Srubna-tyyppisestä kulttuurista (= Don Forest-Steppe Srubnaya culture), joka vallitsi keskisellä Donilla 1900-1100 BC. Pianoborin väestön mallintamiseen ei siis tarvita mitään itäisempiä väestöjä. Vertailun vuoksi skyyttien valtavirta, Scy_Major, mallinnetaan Altain pronssikautisella perimällä Shamanka EBA:lla sekä Sintashtalla ja Keski-Aasian Bustanilla.

Joo, tuo käy ihan järkeen. Volgan tekstiilikeraaminen kulttuurihan taisi syntyä mm. Fatjanovo-, Volosovo- ja Srubnaja-vaikutteista. Admixture-kuvaajissa on mukana Fatjanovo-näytteitä, mutta muualta en löytänyt (itse taulukoita en pysty jostain syystä lataamaan tuolta sivulta). Eli luultavasti qpAdm-mallinnukset eivät noilla erota eri eurooppalaisia aroperimiä toisistaan: tuo Don-paketti saattaa siis sisältää myös Volgan-Kaman vanhan paikallisen Fatjanovo-Balanovo-perimän.

On tietenkin harmi, että tässä uudessä paperissa on jätetty analysoimatta Pianoborin isälinjat. Oletan kuitenkin vanhan tiedon perusteella, että ne ovat pääasiassa N-linjoja, koska netissä joskus aktiivinen Ryukendo otti minuun huhtikuussa 2020 yhteyttä ja kysyi mielipidettäni Pianoborin näytteistä, joissa oli N-linjoja. Hän kirjoitti niistä näin:
Then, the post-Ananyino PyanyBor samples from the Volga have a pulse of modern East Asian ancestry from the East, are almost all N1a1a, and fall squarely on the Uralic cline, with no more excess ANE than modern Volga Uralics do (almost none).
Tästä voisi päätellä, että hän on nähnyt myös Ananjinon näytteitä, joissa ei ilmeisesti ole itäistä perimää.

Mielenkiintoista, silloinhan tuo perimä olisi levinnyt itäisimpään Eurooppaan vasta hyvin myöhään eli uralilaisia kieliä myöhemmin.


MUOX: Täydennystiedostosta:
"Like Semiluk, Pyanoborskaya could be modeled as a mixture of several steppe-related European populations, with the highest proportion of Siberian/Asian ancestry (30-40%) among our IA populations and without Caucasus/Iranian ancestry (table S17). Middle_Don_LBA could serve as a good candidate source for both the Pyanoborskaya and Semiluk populations."

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Isälinjoihin liittyen kiintoisa yksityiskohta on se, että paperin ainoa N-Z1936 > N-Z1934 on skyytti Krimiltä, näyte AS1:

Scythian Neapolis
Scythian Neapolis is located within the modern city of Simferopol in Crimea.
Anthropological materials stem from excavations carried out by N.I. Veselovsky in 1889, P.N.
Shultz in 1946-1949, and E.A. Symonovich in 1956.
AS1 and AS2. These samples, with museum numbers 9022 and 8995, respectively,
originate from a burial complex associated with mounds excavated in 1949 "at the turn of the
road leading from Napolis to the Alushta highway along the eastern slope." Archaeological
findings date these materials to the 1st century BCE – 1st century CE, attributing them to the
Late Scythian period (119).
Skull AS1, represented by its lower jaw in the collection, exhibits no identified
pathologies or stress markers.

Näyte on huonolaatuinen, joten tarkempi luokitus jää saamatta.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Kumma kyllä, AS1 ei näyttäisi Fig S6 mukaan omaavan erityisen paljon Jakutia_MLBA-perimää suhteessa muihin ja tuo perimä on skyyteillä huomattavan yleistä verrattuna Shamanka_EBA-perimään. AS1 vaikuttaisi toisaalta omaavan myös Turkey_Alalakh_MLBA (?) ja Latvia_BA-perimää. Pyanobor omaa näytteistä silti selvästi eniten Jakutia_MLBA-perimää.

[Kristiina]

Kävin vielä läpi Pianoborin äitilinjat. U1b2 on monessa mielessä täysosuma. Sitä on nykyuralilaisista hanteilla, manseilla ja udmurteilla ja ensimmäiset muinaisnäytteet löytyvät Srubnasta. T1a1b on toinen täysosuma. Sitä löytyy nykyväestöistä hanteilta, manseilta ja suomalaisilta. Sitä ei kuitenkaan ole löytynyt eteläiseltä arolta vaan vanhin näyte on pronssikautisesta Virosta. Yfullin puussa juuri on Suomessa. U4a:ta löytyy manseilta ja ensimmäiset muinaisnäytteet ovat Orenburg oblast EBA ja Sintashta. K1c1e on yleinen tsuvasseilla, mareilla ja tataareilla. Kovin vanhoja muinaisnäytteitä ei ole, mutta avaarit ja muinaisunkarilaiset viittaavat vahvasti uralilaisiin. U5b1e1 on läntinen haplotyyppi, joka on yleinen Itämeren alueella sekä avaareilla. Vanhin U5b1e1 on Puolan Trzciniec-kulttuurista. Kiinnostava on esim. Gotlandin Kopparsvikin VK51: U5b1e1 (isälinja N, 84-100% nykysuomea). H10e2 on nykynäytteiden valossa hyvin puolalainen linja, ja ainoa muinaisnäyte on avaareilta. H6a1a on erinomainen esimerkki aron CHG-linjasta. Vanhimmat H6a1a4-näytteet ovat Unkarin sarmatialaiselta ja Volga-Okan Shekshovosta. U2d2:ta löytyy uralilaisista lähinnä vain mordvilta. Haplotyyppi esiintyy lähinnä Kaukasuksen eteläpuolella ja Iranissa. Mielenkiintoinen näyte on Poltavka Grachevka II Samara I0371/SVP11 2871-2581 calBCE U2d2. Itäisiä haplotyyppejä ovat Z1a1a ja G2a1. Z1a1a:ta en listaa tähän, mutta tiedämme, että sitä on kutakuinkin aina siellä, missä on N-haploja. G2a1:n osalta voidaan piirtää reitti idästä länteen Siperian Tagarista, Sargatin kautta Pianoboriin ja sitä löytyy tietenkin myös myöhemmistä Udmurtian Mazuninon näytteistä.

Tässä vielä täydellisempi lista osumista. En ole siis listannut kaikkia muinaisnäytteitä vaan ne, jotka ovat relevanteimpia.

Southern Urals MBA/ Srubnaya-Alakul Nepluyevsky kurgan Kartaly Raion Chelyabinsk Oblast b22-1 Nep31/ ERS15896818 1880–1694 calBC U1b2/ U1b2d2 (yfull), Southern Urals MBA/ Srubnaya-Alakul Nepluyevsky kurgan Kartaly Raion Chelyabinsk Oblast b33-1 Nep23/ NEP025 1873–1641 calBC U1b2/ U1b2d2 (yfull), Pazyryk Scythians Kazakhstan Altai Berel necropolis 300 BC-100AD BRE006.A0101 U1b2, Hellenistic Georgia Nastakisi Kartli NSK007 150–50 calBC U1b2 (Nastakisi_H), Middle Avar Kaba-Dögös KDper16/KD-16 8. sec U1b2 (yline N1a1a1a1a4)
U1b2 hantit, tataarit, udmurtit; Suomessa (111 +231); Hódmezővásárhely Unkari U1b2

Hungary Sarmatian Period Hódmezővásárhely - Fehértó gr 8 HVF-8 H6a1a4, Volga-Oka Middle Age Shekshovo 9 Ivanovo oblast 936±31 calCE SHE004 H6a1a4, Vikings Russia_Gnezdovo 77-222 Gnezdovo Russia VK466 10-11th AD H6a1a4, Conqueror Hungary Sárbogárd Tringer tanya AHP146/ AHPS146 32_grave 10th century H6a1a4* (yfull),
H6a1a4 Suomessa, Venäjällä

Russia EBA Shumayevo-1 Orenburg Oblast Tashlinsky District I11990 kurgan 3, bur 6 2868-2584 calBCE U4a, Sintashta MLBA Kamennyi Ambar 5 Cemetery Trans Urals I1063 2050-1650 BCE U4a, Late Kushnarenkovo/Karayakupovo, early Volga-Kama Bulghar period Bolshie Tigani BT10 grave 42 9-10th AD U4a
U4a mansit; Suomessa

BA Estonia Iru Harjunmaa X02 1090-910 calBC T1a1b, LBA Latvia Kivutkalns194/ MG429040.1 700 BC T1a1b/T1a1b-a* (yfull), IA Estonia Võhma Lääne-Viru VII4 760-400 BC T1a1b, Middle Tagar Barsuchiha-1 Saragash group Khakassia TG101 600-300 BC T1 (126 163 186 189 269 294 362), Scytho-Siberian Russian Altai (Chuya) Pazyryk 350 BC Barburgazy 3 B3_1 T1a1b (163 186), Scytho-Siberian Russian Altai (Chuya) Pazyryk 350 BC Dcholin 2 D_1 T1a1b (163 186), Western Scythian Southern Ural Early Sarmatian Pokrovka Pr11 T1a (126 163 186 189 294), Early Sarmatian Aksaj_I kurg. 15 pogr 19 Lower Volga Volgograd region from Cabinet of Anthropology 100 BC-50 AD SVZ68 T1, Tachtyk Abakano-Pérévoz Khakassia S37 T1 (126 163 186 189 269 294 362), Avars Carpathian Basin Székkutas-Kápolnadűlő Hungary 675–725 AD SzéK396.555B grave 396 AC9/ MH894768.1 T1a1b/T1a1b-a* (yfull), IA Finnics Malli Ingria VIII5 75-300 AD T1a1b, Late Sarmatian cemetery A181028/ MKC16/ LS1.16 late 4th century-early 5th century AD Hajdúnánás-Fürj-halom-dűlő 2. site M3/40A Transtisza region T1a1b, Late-Avar Austria Leobersdorf LEO011 600-850 AD T1a1b, Late-Avar Austria Mödling-An der Goldenen Stiege MGS324 600-850 AD T1a1b, Anc Hun Karos-Eperjesszög gr14 T1a1b, Hun Conq Karos-Eperjesszög Bodrogköz Unkari Karos3/14/ K3per14/ KY083706.1 T1a1b/T1a1b-a* (yfull),
T1a1b Suomessa, hantit (126-163-186-189-270-294) ja mansit

Late Avar Székkutas-Kápolnadűlő SZKTper311/SZKT-311/ ERS9945250 700-830 AD K1c1e, Hun Conq Karos-Eperjesszög Bodrogköz Unkari Karos2/8 K1c1e/ Medieval Hungarian village cemetery K2per8 K1c1e (yfull)
K1c1e Venäjällä, chuvashit, marit, tataarit

Poland MBA Trzciniec culture Żerniki Górne 1 Małopolska Province gr 10 poz650/Poz-107538 1622-1452 calBC U5b1e1, Kokcha BA 3 Uzbekistan I12499 1497-1318 calBCE U5b1e1, Roman IA Sweden_Baltic Oland Lilla_Smedby cist_NS CGG024146 1822 calBP U5b1e1, Late-Avar Austria Mödling-An der Goldenen Stiege MGS231 600-850 AD U5b1e1 (theytree), Late-Avar Austria Mödling-An der Goldenen Stiege MGS232 600-850 AD U5b1e1, Vikings Gotland_Kopparsvik-88/64 Kopparsvik Gotland Sweden VK51 900-1050 AD U5b1e1 (isälinja N 84-100% nykysuomea), Vikings VK251 Gotland_Kopparsvik-30.64 Kopparsvik Gotland Sweden 900-1050 AD U5b1e1,
U5b1e1 Suomessa, Venäjällä

Late-Avar Austria Mödling-An der Goldenen Stiege MGS161 600-850 AD H10e2

Scytho Siberian Khakassia Tagar 700-0 BC Oust-Abakabsty S25 G2a / Tagar Iron Age Oust-Abakansty Khakassia G2a1 (93 223 234 288 298 327), Mongolia EIA Bayan-Ulgiii aimag Tsengel sum 397-233 BCE I13965 G2a1, Sargat culture Mountain Bitiya North Kazakhstan 378-205 calBC BIY003.A0101 (MtBitiya_300BCE) G2a1, Mazunino culture Russia Boyasky/ Boyarsky Udmurtia burial ground CGG021459 1660 calBP G2a1* (yfull), Hungarian Avars Rákóczifa cemetery Transtisza region grave 45 MA 671-772 calAD RKC021.A0101 G2a1, Hungarian Avars Rákóczifa cemetery Transtisza region grave 66 LA 684-821 calAD RKC039.A0101 G2a1, Ust’-Ishim Barsov Gorodok Lower Ob Surgut area TM11 225.Grave 8-9th AD G2a1, Conqueror elite Tiszanána-Cseh tanya TCSper2/TCS-2 785-878 calCE, 10. sec AD (2nd half) G2a1, Late Kushnarenkovo/ Karayakupovo early Volga-Kama Bulghar period Bolshie Tigani BT14 grave 37 9-10th AD G2a1,
[b]G2a1[/b]

Poltavka Grachevka II Samara I0371/SVP11 2871-2581 calBCE U2d2, Iran BA Dinkha Tepe I3913_all 2012-1775 calBCE U2d (IRN_DinkhaTepe_BIA_A),
U2d mordvat

[Kristiina]

MiddleDon_LBA-näytteisiin liittyvät äitilinjat kertovat myös omaa tarinaansa. U5a2a1 on peräisin Euroopasta, ja se esiintyy Moldovan jamnoilla, nuorakeramiikassa, kellopikarikulttuurissa, Srubnassa ja Andronovossa. Sitä esiintyy tataareilla, baskiireilla, komi-permjakeilla, mordvilla sekä virolaisilla ja suomalaisilla. Vanhin U5a1a1 löytyy Saratov Oblastista 7000 vuoden takaa. Myöhemmin sitä löytyy aina sieltä, mistä aroperimääkin (Khvalynsk, Yamnaya, Afanasievo, Fatyanovo, Xinjiangin Andronovo). Sillä on hyvin laaja levinneisyys. Sitä löytyy myös Suomesta, mukaan lukien Levänluhdasta, sekä baskiireilta, mordvilta, tataareilta, udmurteilta ja komi-syrjääneiltä. U5a2b1 on tyypillinen EHG-linja. Vanhin näyte on Murzhikasta 6000 vuoden takaa, mutta linjaa löytyy myös muinaisunkarilaisilta. Nykyuralilaisista sitä löytyy ainakin mordvilta. U5a-linjoista U5a2d:tä ei juuri esiinny uralilaisilla. Linja on EHG-linja, ja sitä löytyi kuitenkin Kuolasta (Bol'shoy Oleni Ostrov 1356 calBC with midpoint rescorr NEO061 /CGG_2_015778 U5a2d). U5b2b-a on siitä mielenkiintoinen, että vanhimmat näytteet ovat 13 000 vuoden takaa Ranskasta. Sen jälkeen se tulee vastaan neoliittisesta Unkarista. MiddleDonin jälkeen linja tupsahtaa esiin avaareilta ja Bashkortostanin sarmatialaiselta. U-ryhmän äitilinjoista MiddleDon-ryhmässä esiintyy myös U2e2a1d:tä. Vanhin U2e2a1d on löytynyt pronssikauden Sveitsistä, jonka jälkeen sitä löytyy usein arolta MLBA-kaudella, esim. Petrovkasta ja Srubnaya-Alakulista Tseljabinskin tienoilla, Sintashtasta, Krasnoyarsk MLBA:sta, Kazakhstanin Fedorovista sekä Uzbekistanin pronssikaudelta. Nykyväestöissä se ei ole kovin yleinen. Yleisimmin sitä esiintyy Venäjällä, Intiassa ja entisen Jugoslavian alueella.

H6a1a on erittäin yleinen muinaisella arolla ja Euroopassa. Se ei ole nykyuralilaisilla kovin yleinen, mutta se on esim. Viron rautakautisen OLS09:n äitilinja. Myös Uppsalan als001 (jolla on 63 prosenttia suomea) kantaa tätä linjaa. H1b on H6a1a:n tavoin tyypillinen arolinja, jota esiintyy esim. Fatyanovossa. H1b on myös yksi Rostovkan näytteiden äitilinjoista. Sitä esiintyy Virossa, Suomessa ja mordvilla ja yllättävästi Nelemoyen jukaghireillä. H1z on sitä vastoin hyvin läntinen haplotyyppi. Ainoat tiedossani olevat muinaiset H1z-näytteet ovat keskiajan Englannista. T2a1b1a on hyvin läntinen linja, jota ei esiinny juurikaan uralilaisilla, mutta se on yleinen Srubna-kulttuurin näytteissä. Myös H41a on varsin läntinen linja ja lähes kaikki muinaisnäytteet ovat Euroopasta. Sitä on kuitenkin löytynyt Fatyanovosta ja Volgan nykyväestöistä baskiireilta. Viimeinen MiddleDon_LBA:n näytteiden äitilinjoista on T2e2. Se oli yleinen Sintashtassa, mutta nykyväestöissä se on varsin harvinainen kaikkialla.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Isälinjoihin liittyen kiintoisa yksityiskohta on se, että paperin ainoa N-Z1936 > N-Z1934 on skyytti Krimiltä, näyte AS1:

Scythian Neapolis
Scythian Neapolis is located within the modern city of Simferopol in Crimea.
Anthropological materials stem from excavations carried out by N.I. Veselovsky in 1889, P.N.
Shultz in 1946-1949, and E.A. Symonovich in 1956.
AS1 and AS2. These samples, with museum numbers 9022 and 8995, respectively,
originate from a burial complex associated with mounds excavated in 1949 "at the turn of the
road leading from Napolis to the Alushta highway along the eastern slope." Archaeological
findings date these materials to the 1st century BCE – 1st century CE, attributing them to the
Late Scythian period (119).
Skull AS1, represented by its lower jaw in the collection, exhibits no identified
pathologies or stress markers.

Näyte on huonolaatuinen, joten tarkempi luokitus jää saamatta.

G25-koordinaattien pohjalta AS1 vaikuttaa lähinnä sekoitukselta komia tai saamelaista sekä jotain kaukasialaista, tyyliin tsakhur, lisäksi mukana on jonkin verran geneerisen näköistä eurooppalaista. Kuten edellä tuli ilmi, näyte omaa Jakutia_MLBA-perimää, joten mahdollisesti G25 on tässä oikeilla linjoilla. Komi tai saamelainen liittynee tässä näytteen N-Z1934-haploon, mutta mikä lienee näiden eri perimätyyppien kontaktipinta ollut?

Target: Ukraine_Crimea_LateScythian:AS1__BC_29__Cov_31.45%
Distance: 2.2881% / 0.02288081 | R3P
43.2 Tsakhur_(n=1)
38.2 Saami_Finland_(n=3)
18.6 French_Oil_Hauts-de-France_Somme_(n=1)

Russia_Bashkortostan_Pyanoborskaya:AB127__AD_1__Cov_12.88%,0.092197,-0.034528,0.085606,0.058786,-0.035699,0.013387,0.013396,0.020999,-0.029451,-0.033531,0.008119,-0.008842,0.024529,-0.027662,-0.0095,-0.017369,-0.008996,0.009502,-0.009553,-0.021885,-0.002246,0.00779,-0.00037,0.01687,0.001437
Russia_Bashkortostan_Pyanoborskaya:AB128__AD_1__Cov_12.61%,0.08992,-0.021326,0.071276,0.076874,-0.023389,0.00251,0.008225,0.032999,-0.010226,-0.023326,0.012342,0.008992,0.011744,-0.038947,-0.016151,0.025722,0.004172,0.006208,-0.011439,0.003752,0.004742,-0.006677,-0.002465,-0.000361,0.000479
Russia_Belgorod_Catacomb:DS10__BC_2299__Cov_98.69%,0.121791,0.092413,0.050911,0.106914,-0.00954,0.03765,-0.002585,-0.004615,-0.036201,-0.06032,-0.001299,-0.002398,-0.004311,-0.025185,0.033116,0.022938,0.00352,0.002787,-0.004777,0.006878,-0.001373,0.003957,0.003821,0.008796,-0.005748
Russia_Belgorod_Catacomb:DS45__BC_2250__Cov_95.49%,0.125205,0.092413,0.069013,0.119834,-0.014464,0.043786,0.007755,0.001154,-0.042336,-0.073806,0.003897,0.00015,0.009514,-0.012799,0.031487,0.012066,-0.009257,-0.00152,-0.004651,0.010255,0.005865,-0.000495,0.012325,0.002651,0.000718
Russia_Belgorod_Scythian:DS9__BC_306__Cov_56.84%,0.111547,0.078196,0.039975,0.057171,0.000308,0.019243,0.001175,0.002308,-0.018816,-0.016766,0.000812,0,0.005352,-0.010459,0.0095,0.011933,-0.003781,0.0019,-0.002765,0.006878,0.004617,-0.005317,0,0.008314,0.003233
Russia_Belgorod_Scythian:DS23__BC_323__Cov_15.30%,0.111547,0.107646,0.053928,0.04199,0.03139,0.011156,0.00705,0.005769,-0.018407,-0.015308,0.002761,-0.004646,0.00223,-0.009083,-0.003664,0.008088,-0.002999,0.004941,-0.006034,-0.006128,0.008485,-0.0115,0.002465,-0.021208,-0.006586
Russia_Belgorod_Scythian:DS44__BC_337__Cov_90.76%,0.114961,0.087336,0.045254,0.050065,0.008001,0.016455,0.002115,0.000462,-0.015544,-0.01385,-0.004547,0.000749,-0.008028,-0.005918,0.005293,0.007027,0.00326,-0.002407,0.007793,0.010005,0.004617,0.007914,0.001232,0.00241,-0.009221
Russia_Krasnodar_Meotian:AB100__BC_201__Cov_45.56%,0.106994,0.128972,-0.028661,-0.010982,-0.036314,0.00502,0.010575,-0.005538,-0.046836,-0.022962,-0.008119,0.004646,-0.016799,-0.003716,0.006786,-0.007558,0.014473,-0.001774,-0.015587,0.017508,0.007736,0.004822,0.002465,-0.003133,-0.003712
Russia_Stavropol_EarlyAlan:AB105__AD_230__Cov_25.23%,0.09675,0.044683,0.023004,0.060401,-0.019388,0.029841,0.005405,0.000692,-0.03027,-0.029887,0.00065,-0.003447,-0.016799,-0.030415,0.02348,0.023601,0.001043,0.002407,-0.002765,0.006378,-0.000873,0.008161,-0.008874,0.006989,0.001557
Russia_Stavropol_Koban:AS20__BC_643__Cov_45.05%,0.112685,0.081242,0.011314,0.024225,-0.00954,0.01255,0.003995,0.001846,-0.031088,-0.016583,-0.008931,0.003297,-0.010852,-0.016377,0.013301,0.003713,0.017211,-0.001014,-0.006788,0.010505,-0.002995,0.003462,0.001232,-0.005422,-0.002036
Russia_Stavropol_Koban:AS21__BC_387__Cov_26.20%,0.10927,0.106631,0.013953,0.012597,-0.013233,0.008088,0.014336,0.005769,-0.025361,-0.004009,-0.008769,-0.002698,-0.020961,0.004817,-0.003529,-0.012066,-0.019818,0.001774,0.010684,0.005878,-0.004617,0.004699,-0.003451,-0.000602,-0.003832
Russia_Stavropol_Sarmatian:AB109__BC_307__Cov_9.92%,0.106994,0.057885,0.026021,0.075259,-0.019696,0.023985,0.00376,0.012461,-0.01493,-0.026789,0.007795,-0.004346,0.000743,-0.024634,0.019679,0.008751,-0.006258,0.008235,-0.010684,-0.006503,-0.003369,-0.006306,0.002342,-0.01205,-0.000239
Russia_Stavropol_Scythian:AS23__BC_387__Cov_18.25%,0.097888,0.094444,0.001508,0.020672,-0.016311,0.015897,0.003995,-0.012461,-0.031906,-0.010934,0.001299,0.015586,-0.013231,-0.012524,0.004343,-0.011668,-0.006258,-0.00114,0.005279,-0.006003,0.00287,0.006059,-0.005793,0.00723,-0.005389
Russia_Udmurtia_Pyanoborskaya:AB130__BC_50__Cov_20.22%,0.09675,-0.049761,0.078064,0.051034,-0.034776,0.011156,0.00987,-0.004615,-0.011658,-0.027153,0.023222,-0.004046,0.013231,-0.031791,-0.001357,0.010077,0.008866,0.009628,-0.014455,-0.01038,0.007612,0.001113,-0.022924,0.013014,-0.000599
Russia_Udmurtia_Pyanoborskaya:AB131__BC_50__Cov_86.10%,0.088782,-0.054839,0.085606,0.065246,-0.048009,0.001116,0.014101,0.014307,-0.011453,-0.03098,0.018999,0.0003,0.006392,-0.03702,-0.003936,0.002917,0.009518,-0.001267,-0.011439,-0.008879,0.002496,0.016817,-0.010106,0.00012,-0.001796
Russia_Udmurtia_Pyanoborskaya:AB132__BC_50__Cov_17.94%,0.091058,-0.053823,0.082212,0.069768,-0.042162,0.008088,0.00141,0.007846,-0.019634,-0.0277,0.021273,-0.004346,0.020367,-0.045691,-0.013029,0.008486,0,-0.001394,-0.003268,0.000625,0.002121,0.013973,-0.00419,0.022895,0.001078
Russia_Udmurtia_Pyanoborskaya:AB133__BC_50__Cov_13.82%,0.100164,-0.043668,0.075424,0.060724,-0.03416,-0.007809,0.01034,-0.013615,-0.009613,-0.037176,0.025657,0.002698,0.005054,-0.034268,0.002307,-0.003447,-0.005867,-0.013556,-0.01081,-0.018634,0.003993,0.005935,-0.002711,0.004579,-0.007784
Russia_Voronezh_Catacomb:DS39__BC_2335__Cov_10.90%,0.106994,0.092413,0.061094,0.10756,-0.004001,0.056336,0.012456,0.006923,-0.037019,-0.069979,-0.017213,0.002997,-0.014717,-0.023396,0.03963,-0.008221,-0.023339,0.003674,-0.008045,0.021635,-0.006114,0.005935,0.004067,-0.017713,-0.010658
Russia_Voronezh_Catacomb:DS46__BC_2500__Cov_90.93%,0.120652,0.092413,0.063733,0.099161,-0.015387,0.044901,0.00141,0.000692,-0.043973,-0.065787,-0.001461,0.001049,-0.002379,-0.020919,0.033523,0.008884,-0.000913,-0.002154,-0.007416,0.006878,0.005865,0.000742,0.006409,0.003012,-0.008382
Russia_Voronezh_Catacomb:DS74__BC_2303__Cov_97.56%,0.121791,0.092413,0.056191,0.106914,-0.005232,0.04267,0,-0.000231,-0.043155,-0.063236,0.003573,0.0003,0.00223,-0.021332,0.034337,0.019093,0.004042,0.0019,-0.005656,0.014757,-0.002995,0.002844,0.001479,0.005302,-0.006826
Russia_Voronezh_EMBA:DS41__BC_2875__Cov_99.43%,0.124067,0.09546,0.065619,0.112082,-0.007386,0.044901,0.003055,-0.000692,-0.048472,-0.069067,0.00341,0.004946,0.000892,-0.019267,0.036373,0.006099,-0.012386,0.000507,-0.002514,0.017633,0.000374,0.001731,0.002218,0.007471,-0.005868
Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS28__BC_300__Cov_13.49%,0.111547,0.08632,0.054682,0.056525,0.027697,0.022311,0.013866,0.010153,-0.011658,-0.029522,-0.002923,0.002398,0.005054,0.015689,0.015879,-0.0118,0.004172,-0.001014,-0.007165,0.004502,-0.005989,-0.001237,0.002958,-0.004217,-0.005508
Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS29__BC_300__Cov_33.23%,0.119514,0.106631,0.065996,0.070737,0.026159,0.020638,0.004935,0.008538,-0.008999,-0.03098,-0.008931,-0.007493,0.007433,0.002202,-0.009229,0.003447,0.007562,-0.003674,0.004777,-0.001501,0.002246,-0.005193,0.00419,-0.01458,-0.002036
Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS30__BC_300__Cov_8.19%,0.110408,0.109677,0.064488,0.063631,0.014156,0.040439,-0.014101,0.013846,-0.015135,-0.030069,-0.006496,-0.012589,0.015907,0.011285,-0.004207,-0.001591,-0.017863,-0.009122,0.000754,-0.014632,-0.011979,-0.005441,-0.002465,-0.016508,0.005389
Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS31__BC_300__Cov_95.90%,0.124067,0.101553,0.065242,0.062662,0.019696,0.025937,0.003525,0.004846,-0.01309,-0.028793,0.012179,-0.005095,0.011298,0.009221,-0.006786,-0.011403,-0.007432,-0.005701,-0.002765,0.001876,-0.004742,-0.000124,0.003944,-0.005543,-0.000718
Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS32__BC_300__Cov_92.95%,0.126344,0.099522,0.061471,0.061047,0.019388,0.022311,0.004465,0.005077,-0.019225,-0.026242,-0.000812,-0.013038,0.010109,0.000275,-0.002579,0.013259,0.015125,-0.004561,-0.006788,0.006378,-0.005116,-0.000371,-0.002711,-0.004579,-0.008382
Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS90__BC_300__Cov_93.25%,0.122929,0.098506,0.068636,0.055556,0.021235,0.022869,0.00047,0.008769,-0.002454,-0.023691,-0.005359,-0.002847,0.015758,0.012248,-0.008822,-0.001193,0.002999,0.001774,0.000377,0.007629,-0.004367,0.000371,-0.002958,-0.002289,-0.006586
Russia_Voronezh_NonScythian:DS92__BC_300__Cov_64.66%,0.120652,0.102568,0.07467,0.062016,0.026466,0.02008,0.00282,0.00923,-0.000409,-0.025513,-0.003735,-0.000899,0.010704,0.011698,-0.006922,-0.009679,-0.014342,0.006081,0.003394,-0.004002,-0.006114,-0.001978,0.002095,-0.00241,0.000359
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:Dev2__BC_290__Cov_95.92%,0.121791,0.089367,0.050911,0.062339,-0.001231,0.028168,0.002115,-0.000692,-0.01493,-0.02278,0.001786,-0.006894,0.000743,-0.004679,0.0038,0.009016,-0.001304,-0.004814,-0.000754,0.001,-0.006738,-0.007543,0.001232,-0.00241,-0.012693
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:Dev3__BC_288__Cov_61.94%,0.125205,0.091398,0.052043,0.057171,0.012002,0.017012,0.00752,-0.001615,-0.017998,-0.025878,-0.002436,-0.012289,0.001933,-0.006331,-0.002307,0.004508,-0.000913,-0.001394,-0.003394,0.001876,-0.005865,-0.001607,-0.007888,0,-0.004191
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:Dev4__BC_267__Cov_99.89%,0.105855,0.046714,0.035449,0.071383,-0.025543,0.028726,0.00517,-0.000923,-0.025156,-0.041185,-0.002923,-0.003897,0.003271,-0.014863,0.020222,0.010209,-0.005215,0.006334,-0.003142,-0.001751,-0.018717,0.005193,0.001232,0.004699,-0.002036
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS1__BC_350__Cov_43.88%,0.111547,0.067025,0.042238,0.081073,0.012925,0.024542,-0.000705,-0.005538,-0.019225,-0.036265,-0.006333,-0.006444,0.005798,-0.004542,0.005429,0.009149,-0.001304,0.004434,0.00729,0.002126,-0.008984,0.008037,-0.001849,0.002771,-0.000359
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS3__BC_350__Cov_23.85%,0.114961,0.083273,0.040352,0.049096,-0.001846,0.024263,0.006815,-0.001615,-0.025975,-0.036994,-0.00065,-0.009891,0.007284,-0.000413,0.010586,-0.005038,-0.023339,-0.004814,-0.006536,-0.006628,-0.007487,0.006059,-0.000739,-0.00723,0.000599
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS4__BC_297__Cov_30.30%,0.110408,0.085304,0.041483,0.056202,0.005539,0.01757,0.006815,0.004154,-0.015544,-0.03262,0.000812,0.002248,-0.002973,-0.016515,0.011265,0.009679,0.000652,0.003927,-0.005279,0.007754,-0.014225,-0.002968,0.009244,-0.012532,-0.002155
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS7__BC_271__Cov_99.14%,0.120652,0.082258,0.044877,0.049419,-0.001846,0.008925,0.006815,0.011538,-0.024543,-0.025878,-0.000487,-0.009591,0.005649,-0.002615,0.004343,0.003978,-0.00326,0.005701,0.002388,0.001126,-0.00861,0.00371,-0.004437,0.00482,-0.008023
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS11__BC_337__Cov_22.49%,0.112685,0.042652,0.039598,0.070091,-0.025235,0.001394,0.001645,0.001846,-0.033542,-0.035536,-0.003735,-0.012589,-0.007582,-0.023533,0.02633,-0.001724,-0.010431,-0.000127,-0.000628,-0.007629,-0.007736,0.007048,-0.001602,0.010242,-0.005269
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS13__BC_350__Cov_13.26%,0.112685,0.073118,0.0445,0.05491,-0.01908,0.010877,-0.00423,-0.002077,-0.016566,-0.019499,-0.008444,-0.01139,0.004608,-0.003578,0.006922,0.007425,-0.000522,0.002154,-0.006662,-0.003252,-0.004991,-0.014715,-0.006286,0.003012,0.00946
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS14__BC_325__Cov_52.92%,0.122929,0.081242,0.064111,0.072352,0.001846,0.023706,0.002585,0.007384,-0.024338,-0.040092,0.001624,-0.001649,0.017542,-0.000963,0.009908,0.012463,0.020601,-0.00152,-0.005405,0.007253,-0.010606,-0.002844,0.007395,0.000602,0.00491
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS19__BC_350__Cov_85.38%,0.113823,0.078196,0.046763,0.072352,0.000923,0.0251,0.00188,0.006,-0.023929,-0.030433,0.000162,-0.001499,0.004757,-0.001376,0.011129,-0.005967,-0.018384,0.000633,0.000754,-0.006878,-0.009733,0.002844,0.001479,-0.00976,-0.002754
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS21__BC_375__Cov_90.51%,0.125205,0.082258,0.056945,0.071383,0.011079,0.031236,0.000235,0.006692,-0.009204,-0.034989,0.000974,-0.004796,0.006244,0.003853,0.003529,0.003182,0.000261,0.001014,-0.006913,-0.000125,-0.001497,-0.000247,0.00493,-0.005543,-0.000599
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS33__BC_337__Cov_52.13%,0.127482,0.09546,0.059208,0.06137,0.007078,0.026774,-0.00235,0.006692,-0.024338,-0.0277,-0.002923,-0.01079,0.000892,-0.001789,0.002714,0.011933,0.015646,-0.0019,-0.00264,0.01138,-0.006114,0.01014,-0.005546,-0.014339,-0.001197
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS36__BC_362__Cov_8.46%,0.10927,0.06804,0.042992,0.063631,0.005847,0.010877,-0.00611,-0.002769,-0.013499,-0.014761,-0.015102,0.005995,0.003865,-0.006606,0.021444,-0.004641,-0.005737,0.013429,0.010307,0.001501,0.005241,0.007419,-0.00456,-0.014942,-0.000479
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS38__BC_350__Cov_64.28%,0.10927,0.058901,0.03017,0.066215,-0.022466,0.031515,0.00752,0.009461,-0.024952,-0.030433,-0.004872,0.004646,0.000149,-0.027387,0.02253,0.011668,-0.007041,0.004307,-0.006285,-0.006753,-0.003119,-0.002473,0.006409,0,0.003353
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS40__BC_375__Cov_83.45%,0.118376,0.094444,0.043369,0.057494,0.007078,0.023427,-0.00094,0.003923,-0.015953,-0.017859,-0.00682,-0.003447,-0.000297,-0.008945,0.006515,0.013524,0.017341,0.0019,0.000377,0.00963,-0.001497,0.007172,-0.002588,0.000482,-0.003353
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS43__BC_337__Cov_14.46%,0.111547,0.082258,0.060339,0.062985,0.014464,0.026495,0.00611,0.015461,-0.008999,-0.019681,0.003248,-0.002698,0.018434,-0.008945,0.002443,0.018165,0.022948,-0.000253,0.000251,0.006003,-0.005116,-0.004204,-0.003944,0.005422,0.0097
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS52__BC_350__Cov_50.83%,0.121791,0.087336,0.044877,0.055233,0.007694,0.034025,0.003995,0.004384,-0.01718,-0.020046,-0.006171,-0.008542,0.003122,0.003853,0.001086,0.002387,0.003781,-0.000253,0.002137,0.006503,-0.002371,0.011129,0.006286,0.003615,-0.009939
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS61__BC_325__Cov_9.07%,0.121791,0.088351,0.051288,0.068153,0.015387,0.011992,-0.00893,-0.013153,-0.014726,-0.029522,0.012991,-0.008992,0.003419,0.005643,0.013029,-0.001193,-0.020731,-0.009375,-0.021369,-0.011881,-0.001123,0.004204,-0.011585,-0.005422,-0.009221
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS63__BC_325__Cov_17.15%,0.129758,0.098506,0.05242,0.061693,0.001539,0.018686,0.00047,-0.002077,-0.015748,-0.032985,0.007307,-0.006744,0.00223,0.007982,0.014929,-0.011933,-0.004042,-0.005068,0.002388,-0.00988,0.001123,-0.003462,0.003574,-0.00241,0.003952
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS65__BC_350__Cov_92.53%,0.104717,0.040621,0.023381,0.043282,-0.021542,0.017291,-0.001175,0.001615,-0.015135,-0.018224,-0.002111,-0.005095,-0.004757,-0.02491,0.009365,0.006099,0.008084,-0.007855,-0.003017,0.005378,-0.013476,0.008285,-0.000616,0.003494,-0.002634
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS67__BC_362__Cov_99.21%,0.113823,0.070072,0.037712,0.056525,-0.010463,0.013387,0.006345,0.004154,-0.025565,-0.030251,0.002111,-0.001649,-0.006987,-0.013212,0.013843,0.020551,0.008084,0.000887,0.001885,-0.002001,-0.012603,0.006183,0.005176,0.001446,-0.005628
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS69__BC_362__Cov_91.87%,0.1161,0.085304,0.053928,0.061693,0.005847,0.02761,-0.001645,0.000923,-0.016975,-0.028611,-0.005359,-0.004496,0.001487,-0.00289,0.005972,0.008486,-0.002086,0.004434,0.004022,0.002626,-0.002496,0.006306,0.006162,0.005302,-0.005508
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS70__BC_337__Cov_36.10%,0.118376,0.094444,0.062602,0.069768,0.030159,0.026216,0.009165,0.008077,-0.007772,-0.024055,-0.002923,-0.001649,0.007433,0.006606,0.000136,-0.003978,-0.010431,0.0019,-0.000754,0.006128,-0.006114,0.002844,0.004437,-0.001325,-0.005149
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS72__BC_337__Cov_30.00%,0.110408,0.070072,0.043746,0.064923,-0.009848,0.016176,0.00564,0.010384,-0.022702,-0.032074,0.005034,-0.01169,-0.005946,-0.009083,0.009636,-0.00305,0.004563,0,-0.005405,-0.005378,-0.003993,0.007172,-0.000986,-0.007832,0.000359
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS84__BC_350__Cov_94.78%,0.121791,0.08632,0.048649,0.058786,-0.005232,0.013666,0.011045,0.01223,-0.023316,-0.029887,0.00682,-0.00045,0.000446,-0.007569,0.016286,0.001591,-0.000522,0.00152,0.001006,-0.001126,-0.010357,-0.002102,0.005176,-0.002169,0.000359
Russia_Voronezh_Scythian:DS93__BC_337__Cov_90.94%,0.126344,0.103584,0.062602,0.061693,0.011079,0.026495,0.002585,-0.003923,-0.015953,-0.020775,0.004547,-0.007343,0.010258,0.002615,0.0038,-0.015778,-0.012908,-0.0019,-0.008296,-0.004752,-0.004991,0.008656,-0.002958,-0.004097,-0.005748
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS8__BC_1857__Cov_23.62%,0.120652,0.08632,0.046009,0.055233,0.007386,0.001952,0.00235,0.009692,-0.023929,-0.023873,-0.002436,0.001798,0.001933,0.00055,0.007057,0.010342,-0.004563,-0.00228,-0.002011,0.007504,-0.004243,-0.000495,-0.012202,-0.000964,-0.003712
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS16__BC_1250__Cov_78.82%,0.125205,0.118817,0.056945,0.072352,0.019696,0.031794,0.002585,0.004154,-0.016771,-0.024966,-0.00682,-0.001649,0,-0.025047,0.023072,0.021612,0.00691,-0.002407,-0.003017,-0.00075,-0.006988,-0.007419,-0.009613,0.011086,-0.003353
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS18__BC_1250__Cov_81.36%,0.124067,0.106631,0.045632,0.082688,-0.002154,0.040718,0.009635,0.003692,-0.029247,-0.037723,0,0.001649,-0.005649,-0.011423,0.030401,-0.011138,-0.017863,0.010135,0.004651,-0.007379,-0.005989,0.005812,-0.001849,0.00976,0.001676
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS42__BC_1500__Cov_10.34%,0.12862,0.113739,0.053174,0.076874,0.021235,0.03012,-0.004935,0.003,-0.017589,-0.036629,-0.007145,-0.002248,0.003717,-0.02202,0.018594,0.027181,0.014473,0.00152,-0.000628,0.011506,-0.005241,0.001607,0.004683,-0.004097,-0.008981
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS47__BC_1636__Cov_11.49%,0.120652,0.112724,0.041106,0.078166,0.00954,0.02761,-0.005405,0.01223,-0.016157,-0.025513,-0.009743,-0.005545,-0.000446,-0.026836,0.018594,0.02254,0.0103,-0.002154,-0.005782,0.005378,0.000624,0.00136,0.000739,0.021328,0.000479
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS48__BC_1250__Cov_22.20%,0.119514,0.108662,0.056568,0.084949,0.007078,0.025937,0.00235,0.008538,-0.007567,-0.03991,0.006496,-0.00015,0,-0.027249,0.038273,0.015911,0.00339,-0.006714,-0.004777,0.014382,0.004617,-0.000866,-0.004314,0.004097,-0.012933
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS50__BC_1250__Cov_51.99%,0.121791,0.117801,0.055814,0.084949,0.018465,0.033467,0.007285,-0.001846,-0.016771,-0.030251,-0.004709,0.001649,-0.003122,-0.020781,0.02253,0.022275,-0.00339,0,-0.007416,0.001126,0.004118,0.008161,-0.000986,-0.001566,0.005868
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS73__BC_1500__Cov_33.30%,0.122929,0.103584,0.053551,0.08398,0.008617,0.033188,0.002115,-0.000462,-0.012271,-0.028793,-0.009419,0.0003,-0.001041,-0.014038,0.013843,0.020551,0.005346,0.003927,0.002011,0.009379,-0.002121,-0.004328,0.009244,0.013255,-0.00934
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS75__BC_1500__Cov_12.82%,0.122929,0.123895,0.060339,0.081073,0.00677,0.033467,0.001645,-0.006231,-0.031701,-0.032438,0.007957,-0.003297,0.007136,-0.016515,0.029044,0.012331,-0.002347,0.010262,-0.005908,0.016133,0.007612,0.003833,-0.000123,0.004338,-0.015448
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS77__BC_1762__Cov_97.23%,0.122929,0.11577,0.055814,0.076874,0.015387,0.026216,0.005405,0.007154,-0.015748,-0.021686,-0.004872,0.001049,0.001635,-0.020919,0.026465,0.014187,0.006519,0.005321,0.001885,0.003252,-0.004742,0.000866,-0.00493,0.005784,0.001796
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS78__BC_1500__Cov_77.80%,0.118376,0.114755,0.050157,0.075905,0.011387,0.029562,0.007285,0.007384,-0.019839,-0.02934,-0.003573,-0.002997,-0.005352,-0.025735,0.015065,0.010607,-0.009909,0.001394,-0.002011,-0.002876,-0.000125,0.007172,-0.004067,0.011086,-0.008861
Russia_Voronezh_Srubnaya:DS87__BC_1797__Cov_48.99%,0.120652,0.097491,0.056568,0.094639,0.008617,0.034582,0.00141,0.004846,-0.02577,-0.044101,0.002761,0.0003,-0.000892,-0.013074,0.017915,0.007955,-0.01017,0.004307,-0.00176,0.001751,0.006364,0.008037,-0.007888,0.008555,0.004431
Ukraine_Crimea_LateScythian:AS1__BC_29__Cov_31.45%,0.106994,0.06804,0.046763,0.039729,-0.008617,0.009761,0.00188,0.001615,-0.024952,-0.021504,-0.000487,-0.004646,-0.003717,-0.003578,0.008415,-0.003978,-0.015255,-0.000633,0.00817,-0.007504,-0.001872,0.005441,-0.003574,-0.001084,-0.003113
Ukraine_Crimea_LateScythian:AS7__BC_229__Cov_11.26%,0.124067,0.101553,0.02753,0.023579,-0.001539,0.021196,-0.00235,0.003461,-0.015544,-0.009841,0.007632,0.013488,-0.01219,-0.014038,-0.004886,0.006895,0.015776,0.002154,-0.019609,0.009755,-0.003494,0.01051,-0.011585,0.006386,-0.010897
Ukraine_Crimea_LateScythian:AS15__BC_318__Cov_22.09%,0.127482,0.128972,0.051288,0.034238,0.02739,0.01255,-0.000705,0.002308,-0.000205,-0.011845,-0.005521,0.004796,-0.003568,0.002202,0.004479,-0.005304,0.002477,-0.007095,0.005782,-0.0005,-0.004617,0.009398,0.009244,-0.009519,0.001078
Ukraine_Dnipropetrovsk_Scythian:AS39__BC_322__Cov_33.43%,0.110408,0.066009,0.026398,0.034561,-0.013849,0.020638,-0.000235,-0.001846,-0.025975,-0.018224,-0.004709,0.003597,-0.007136,-0.020093,0.00665,0.015115,0.00691,-0.005954,0.006034,0.005753,-0.004367,-0.004699,-0.004314,-0.001084,-0.003952
Ukraine_Dnipropetrovsk_Scythian:AS40__BC_350__Cov_29.58%,0.102441,0.078196,0.035449,0.045543,-0.000615,0.019522,-0.002115,0.002538,-0.022293,-0.015126,-0.004872,-0.000599,-0.00996,-0.015001,0.009772,0.020684,0.006128,0.006841,0.006662,-0.003377,-0.008984,-0.002102,-0.011832,0.01205,-0.005508
Ukraine_Zaporizhzhia_Scythian:AS30__BC_647__Cov_17.13%,0.108132,0.076165,0.032809,0.044251,-0.013233,0.026216,-0.00799,-0.002077,-0.026384,-0.023691,-0.003897,-0.003297,-0.005946,-0.008808,0.013029,-0.015646,-0.015776,0.000633,-0.009679,0.008379,-0.011729,0.011623,0.004683,0.000602,0.005628
Ukraine_Zaporizhzhia_Scythian:AS34__BC_575__Cov_24.26%,0.102441,0.069056,0.036958,0.045543,-0.023389,0.021753,0.00329,0.002769,-0.014726,-0.019499,0.005359,0.012439,0.000149,-0.037709,0.016015,0.013392,-0.000391,-0.005828,-0.000754,-0.005753,-0.00574,0.007296,-0.001725,-0.00723,-0.008981

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Huomasin yllättäen että FTDNA Discover ilmoittaa näytteen Novozavedennoye 24, 400-300 eaa, skyytti, olevan N-VL62> N-Y139393, ref Andreeva et al 2025. Toisaalta: "The N-Y139393 paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor N-BY32547 and the rest of humankind around 50 CE.
This date is an estimate based on genetic information only. With a 95% probability, the ancestor N-BY32547 was born between the years 587 BCE and 537 CE. The most likely estimate is 42 CE, rounded to 50 CE. The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 500 CE. Ja, YFull estimaatti on N-FT68246Y139393 * Y139390 * FT66239(H)+2 SNPs formed 1900 ybp, TMRCA 1350 ybp. Eli, olisiko kuitenkin siis vain virhe? Paperissa on edelleen maininta vain yhdestä N-Z1936 skyytistä, siis siitä Krimille haudatusta.

[Jaska]

Huomasin yllättäen että FTDNA Discover ilmoittaa näytteen Novozavedennoye 24, 400-300 eaa, skyytti, olevan N-VL62> N-Y139393, ref Andreeva et al 2025. Toisaalta: "The N-Y139393 paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor N-BY32547 and the rest of humankind around 50 CE.
This date is an estimate based on genetic information only. With a 95% probability, the ancestor N-BY32547 was born between the years 587 BCE and 537 CE. The most likely estimate is 42 CE, rounded to 50 CE. The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 500 CE. Ja, YFull estimaatti on N-FT68246Y139393 * Y139390 * FT66239(H)+2 SNPs formed 1900 ybp, TMRCA 1350 ybp. Eli, olisiko kuitenkin siis vain virhe? Paperissa on edelleen maininta vain yhdestä N-Z1936 skyytistä, siis siitä Krimille haudatusta.

Niin siis mikä kohta tuossa olisi se virhe?
Ahaa, ilmeisesti tarkoitit ristiriitaa siinä, että näyte AS24 on ajoitettu Discoverissa 400-300 BCE, kun taas mutaation Y139393 syntyajaksi annetaan 500 CE?

Kuvassa S6 tuo AS24 on ainoa eteläskyytti, jolle annetaan Krasnojarsk-perimää. Taulukko S1 antaa ajoituksen neljännelle vuosisadalle BCE. Taulukko S3 puolestaan kertoo, ettei tutkimusryhmä saanut tuolle näytteelle isälinjatulosta, vaikka kyseessä on mies. Ja se N-Z1934-mies on näyte AS1.

Eli jos olisi niin, että FTDNA on onnistunut analysoimaan miehen Y-DNA:n, niin meillä olisi tässä "karjalainen" skyytti! Ristiriita syntyy siitä, että mutaation VL62 synty on ajoitettu vuoteen 50 BCE, eli tämä skyytti olisi muutamia satoja vuosia sitäkin vanhempi ja silti sen pojanpoikaismutaation alla.

Ottaen huomioon, kuinka isoon aineistoon Discoverin ajoitukset perustuvat, olisi todellakin outoa, että näin nuori mutaatio olisi lähes vuosituhannen varhaisempi kuin nykynäytteiden perusteella on laskettu. Vaikuttaakin todennäköisemmältä, että kyse on virhetuloksesta FTDNA:lla - itse tutkijaryhmähän ei edes saanut miehestä isälinjatulosta, eli DNA:ta on varmaan vain vähän ja se on heikkolaatuista. Ja tosiaan, taulukosta S3 nähdään myös, että snippimäärät ovat alhaisia: 88175 (1 240 000:sta) ja 44079 (600 000:sta). Muistakaan matalanumeroisista ei näyttäisi yleensä isälinjatulosta saadun.

Uskoisin siis, että FTDNA:n tulos on tältä osin virheellinen.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Huomasin yllättäen että FTDNA Discover ilmoittaa näytteen Novozavedennoye 24, 400-300 eaa, skyytti, olevan N-VL62> N-Y139393, ref Andreeva et al 2025. Toisaalta: "The N-Y139393 paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor N-BY32547 and the rest of humankind around 50 CE.
This date is an estimate based on genetic information only. With a 95% probability, the ancestor N-BY32547 was born between the years 587 BCE and 537 CE. The most likely estimate is 42 CE, rounded to 50 CE. The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 500 CE. Ja, YFull estimaatti on N-FT68246Y139393 * Y139390 * FT66239(H)+2 SNPs formed 1900 ybp, TMRCA 1350 ybp. Eli, olisiko kuitenkin siis vain virhe? Paperissa on edelleen maininta vain yhdestä N-Z1936 skyytistä, siis siitä Krimille haudatusta.

Niin siis mikä kohta tuossa olisi se virhe?
Ahaa, ilmeisesti tarkoitit ristiriitaa siinä, että näyte AS24 on ajoitettu Discoverissa 400-300 BCE, kun taas mutaation Y139393 syntyajaksi annetaan 500 CE?

Kuvassa S6 tuo AS24 on ainoa eteläskyytti, jolle annetaan Krasnojarsk-perimää. Taulukko S1 antaa ajoituksen neljännelle vuosisadalle BCE. Taulukko S3 puolestaan kertoo, ettei tutkimusryhmä saanut tuolle näytteelle isälinjatulosta, vaikka kyseessä on mies. Ja se N-Z1934-mies on näyte AS1.

Eli jos olisi niin, että FTDNA on onnistunut analysoimaan miehen Y-DNA:n, niin meillä olisi tässä "karjalainen" skyytti! Ristiriita syntyy siitä, että mutaation VL62 synty on ajoitettu vuoteen 50 BCE, eli tämä skyytti olisi muutamia satoja vuosia sitäkin vanhempi ja silti sen pojanpoikaismutaation alla.

Ottaen huomioon, kuinka isoon aineistoon Discoverin ajoitukset perustuvat, olisi todellakin outoa, että näin nuori mutaatio olisi lähes vuosituhannen varhaisempi kuin nykynäytteiden perusteella on laskettu. Vaikuttaakin todennäköisemmältä, että kyse on virhetuloksesta FTDNA:lla - itse tutkijaryhmähän ei edes saanut miehestä isälinjatulosta, eli DNA:ta on varmaan vain vähän ja se on heikkolaatuista. Ja tosiaan, taulukosta S3 nähdään myös, että snippimäärät ovat alhaisia: 88175 (1 240 000:sta) ja 44079 (600 000:sta). Muistakaan matalanumeroisista ei näyttäisi yleensä isälinjatulosta saadun.

Uskoisin siis, että FTDNA:n tulos on tältä osin virheellinen.

Laitoin asiasta kysymyksen FTDNA:lle, mutta tuskinpa he asiaa kommentoivat. Liittyen Novozavedennoje-hautakompleksiin:

"Scythians from Novozavedennoye-III were identified as potential close relatives. Two
men (AS24 and AS25) were first-degree relatives. Their distinct mtDNA haplogroups suggest
that they are likely father and son rather than brothers. Given that AS26 and AS24 share a
maternal mitochondrial DNA lineage and that we also discovered second-degree relatedness
between AS23 and AS24, these four individuals were most likely part of one family group."

"The Q1b2b~ (L940) lineage was found in one Scythe from Novozavedennoye-III
(AS23). The Q-L940 haplogroup is a branch of the Asiatic haplogroup Q-L56, that was found
in samples from mesolithic Latvia (153), western Russia, in the Khvalynsk culture population
(~4500 BCE) from the middle Volga region (153), and Okunevo culture individuals (2900-
1800 BCE) from Khakassia (146). Today, Q-L940 is predominantly distributed in northern
Europe and Scandinavia.

Olisiko tämä Q erikoisesti joskus pronssikauden lopulla Skandinavian puolelle loikannutta Q-Y4827 linjaa? Sekä AS23 että AS24, molemmat ryhmässä Scythian_South, ovat autosomaalin osalta kaukana PCA-Pyanoborista, ihan tuoreesta sekoituksesta ei siis voi olla kysymys. Sen sijaan esim. myös Pohjois-Kaukasian alueen Solnechnodolskin AB107, ryhmässä Stavropol_IA, voisi PCA-sijoituksensa autosomaalinsa perusteella olla ensimmäisen polven Pyanobor-tyyppinen sekoitus, omaten sekoitusanalyysissäkin enemmän Yakutia_LNBA-tyypin perimää kuin edellä mainitut.

[Jaska]

Tuo Q-L940 on kyllä mystinen. Katselin sen alaryhmiä:
1. Q-L932 (15 000 BCE) löytyy Okunevosta, Siperian kampakeraamikoilta ja Rostovkasta, sitten sillä on länsieurooppalainen jälkeläiskeskittymä!

2. Q-FGC6927 (15 000 BCE)
>Q-L527 (1650 BCE) keskittyy Ruotsiin
>Q-FT377000 neljä näytettä Okunevosta Etelä-Siperiasta.

Aivan häröä... Voisiko tässä olla kyse satunnaisista, eksoottisuudellaan tai rujoilla käytöstavoillaan menestyneistä Seima-Turbino-miehistä? Mutta sukupuu on aika epätarkka, ja aikavälit mutaatioiden välillä suuria, joten kai tätä olisi voinut levitä länteen jo kivikaudellakin.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Huomasin yllättäen että FTDNA Discover ilmoittaa näytteen Novozavedennoye 24, 400-300 eaa, skyytti, olevan N-VL62> N-Y139393, ref Andreeva et al 2025.

FTDNA vastasi, skyytti on tosiaan tason N-VL62 alla: "The Phylogenetics team has evaluated the file provided by the study and found that he has positive reads for FT68246. The placement is correct."

VL62-mutaation varhaiset tasot ovat jostain syystä ilmeisesti olleet aktiivisia suunnilleen samalla alueella, jossa vaikutti Pyanobor-kulttuuri, siis Kama-joen vaiheilla. Osumia löytyy siksi nyt mm. Sverdlovskin ja Kurganin oblasteista. Ehkä yhteys Kaukasukselle rakentuu sitä kautta, liittyen Pyanoboria edeltävän Ananjino-vaiheen ja Kaukasuksen Koban-kulttuurin yhteyksiin?