DNA-tutkimus Venäjän puolen suomalaissukuisista

[rcislandlake]

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/15/12/16 ... qtJdGTeMbg

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Hyvää on mm. N-Z1934 pohjaisten ryhmien levikkitiedot, autosomaalipuolen analyysi on hieman kömpelön oloista. Data on onneksi kuitenkin julkaistu ja lähetetty jalostettavaksi G25-koordinaateiksi. Lisäpapereita on lisäksi tulossa, mikä on erinomainen asia.

[Jaska]

Mielenkiintoinen tutkimus, joka keskittyy isälinjoihin; autosomaalinäytteitä on niukemmin. Kielestä he tietysti heittelevät ihan mitä sattuu.

Hyvää tietoa Venäjän puolen VL62- ("karjalais-" = Z19825) ja CTS4329- ("savolais-" ja "saamelais-") linjoista. Ai että, täydennystaulukko S3 on juuri sitä, mitä olen kaivannut: kaikkien olennaisten N3a4-alahaploryhmien pitoisuudet väestöissä.

[Vastandus]

Admixturen perusteella inkeroiset, inkerinsuomalaiset ja vatjalaiset eivät ole niin erilaisia kuin vatjalaisten isälinjojen perusteella voisi kuvitella. Kun G25-kordinaatit saahaan niin slaavisekoitteisia yksilöitä voidaan tarpeen vaatiessa karsia. Myös tverinkarjalaisilla näyttäisi olevan tätä vihreää 'slaavia' mutta sitä löytynee kaikilta yksilöiltä joten karsiminen ei auta. Sama tekijä ilmestyy kaikissa Itä-Karjalan ja Vienan asukkaissa vain hiukan pienemmissä määrin, joten taustalla voisi olla myös jotain paljon vanhempaa läheisesti slaavinsukuista Liettuaa mitä G25 jakaa Itä-Karjalaan päin hyvin anteliaasti.
Arvelisin että tummanpunainen komponentti on levis/NEO538-linjalla. Onhan se korkein pohjoisessa, Kalevalan piirin vienalaisissa ja vepsäläisissä.
Novgorodin alueen Ljubytinon venäläiset saavat eniten 'itäsuomalaista' komponenttia, oikeastaan enemmän kuin tverinkarjalaiset. Siten heillä myäs on slaavinkielisistä vähiten vihreää komponenttia, vaikka silti saman verran kuin tverinkarjalaisilla. Ainakin vielä tämän tietomäärän perusteella vaikuttaa hyvinkin mahdolliselta että Pskovin pitkät kummut yhdistävät vatjalaisia, itäsuomalaisia, ja ljubytinoa.
Ehkäpä sitten Itä-Karjalan baltti olisi tullut merta pitkin Liettuan suunnalta jo pari vuosisataa aiemmin? Inkerin tarhis VIII9 oli hyvin liettualainen jo melkein kaksi vuosituhatta sitten.
Tämä siis perustuu K=6 tuloksiin. K=22 mahdollisesti erottaa slaavin ja sen sukulaisbaltin. Ljubytino kuitenkin silti poikkeaa muista venäläisistä.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

"Kunnan itäosassa on ollut 1600-luvulla syntynyttä karjalaisasutusta. Peter von Köppenin 1800-luvun puolivälissä laatimassa etnografisessa kartassa karjalaisten asuttamina mainitaan muun muassa Falkovon, Kamenkan, Kolokolušan, Simanihan, Uškovon ja Zubovon kylät[2]. Asutus venäläistyi 1900-luvun alkuun mennessä. Vuoden 1926 väestönlaskennan mukaan Belojen kunnassa oli enää 19 karjalaista[3]."

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubytino

[Vastandus]

"Kunnan itäosassa on ollut 1600-luvulla syntynyttä karjalaisasutusta. Peter von Köppenin 1800-luvun puolivälissä laatimassa etnografisessa kartassa karjalaisten asuttamina mainitaan muun muassa Falkovon, Kamenkan, Kolokolušan, Simanihan, Uškovon ja Zubovon kylät[2]. Asutus venäläistyi 1900-luvun alkuun mennessä. Vuoden 1926 väestönlaskennan mukaan Belojen kunnassa oli enää 19 karjalaista[3]."

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubytino

En oo viälä hirveesti tutkistellut mutta lupytinot saa laskurissani samaa Eastern Gulf-komponenttiä kuin sä ja viäläpä hyvillä fiteillä.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Livvikot ja inkeroiset melkein riittävät, TUD001 haluaa mukaan:

Target: KK_scaled
Distance: 1.5886% / 0.01588573 | R3P
62.2 Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi)
25.4 Ingrians
12.4 EST_MA_TUD001

Jos taas savakot ovat mukana, tarvitaan myös vepsäläisiä:

Target: KK_scaled
Distance: 1.5758% / 0.01575802 | R4P
56.6 Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi)
17.8 Ingrian_Finns
14.0 Veps
11.6 EST_MA_TUD001

Inkeroiset korvaavat toisaalta tarvittaessa savakkoja. Aunuksenkarjala eli livvi pysyy koko ajan pääkomponenttina. Kumma kyllä Agdzhoyan et al-paperin mukaan Aunuksessa ei ole N-Z1940 linjaani, mutta äkkiäkös sikäläisen oloinen perimätyyppi tarttuu:

Target: KK_scaled
Distance: 1.5722% / 0.01572204 | R5P
56.4 Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi)
11.8 EST_MA_TUD001
11.8 Ingrian_Finns
11.2 Ingrians
8.8 Veps

Finland_Turku_MA:CHS119,0.132035,0.091398,0.077687,0.079458,0.042777,0.032909,0.00423,0.010846,0.00634,-0.023326,0.008769,0.002997,0.007284,0.00867,-0.013843,-0.010475,-0.017732,0.010895,-0.001508,-0.00025,0.007612,-0.001607,0.008997,0.011809,0.007544
EST_MA_TUD001,0.132035,0.106631,0.090132,0.068153,0.049855,0.025379,0.006345,0.010153,0.015953,-0.018224,-0.011205,-0.018434,0.015609,-0.000413,-0.002172,0.022938,0.015907,-0.006081,0.001508,0,0.010856,0.008408,0.002095,-0.00735,0.005868
Ingrians:1,0.133173,0.084289,0.087492,0.080427,0.030467,0.025937,0.0094,0.01523,0.000409,-0.031162,0.007632,-0.007643,0.025718,0.007569,-0.008686,-0.002784,-0.002347,-0.000127,-0.005782,0.004002,0.007861,-0.002226,0.005669,0.00012,-0.002994
Ingrians:2,0.125205,0.082258,0.088246,0.078489,0.033545,0.021196,0.01081,0.014769,0.005727,-0.027518,0.007307,-0.007194,0.011298,0.012248,-0.002307,0.002254,0.000261,0.001267,0.006034,0.009755,0.001123,-0.002226,0.0053,0,0.002275
Ingrians:3,0.134311,0.090382,0.093149,0.073321,0.028005,0.023148,0.013161,0.013615,0.000818,-0.022233,0.007145,-0.013188,0.01888,0.013349,-0.000543,-0.004641,-0.00691,0.00266,-0.003142,-5e-04,0.004742,0.000124,0,-0.00494,0.00012
Ingrians:4,0.130897,0.090382,0.095412,0.080427,0.032621,0.023427,0.0094,0.015692,0.004295,-0.023508,0.004384,-0.004196,0.019475,0.021056,-0.004207,-0.007425,-0.018645,-0.00038,0.008045,0.000875,-0.001497,-0.004575,0.001602,-0.002289,0.008622
Ingrians:5,0.126344,0.081242,0.086361,0.085272,0.024928,0.01506,0.00564,0.014538,0.005318,-0.030798,0.001786,-0.009142,0.014123,0.003441,-0.005157,0.008486,0.017211,-0.00228,-0.003268,0.010755,0.005989,0.004822,0.003328,0.003012,0.003952
Ingrians:6,0.12862,0.089367,0.088623,0.079781,0.032006,0.024821,0.009165,0.018692,0.005727,-0.021322,0.005034,-0.007643,0.021556,0.016928,-0.006515,-0.008618,-0.008605,-0.001394,0.003645,-0.004752,0.00574,-0.005564,0.005423,-0.008314,0.001317
Ingrians:7,0.130897,0.089367,0.086738,0.072352,0.034776,0.021475,0.011516,0.020538,0.001636,-0.032256,0.003573,-0.013038,0.017393,0.008945,-0.002443,0.002387,0.002477,-0.00228,-0.001131,-0.002876,-0.00287,-0.003215,0.001972,0.006989,0.005269
Ingrians:8,0.134311,0.08632,0.092395,0.079458,0.030159,0.029841,0.013396,0.017307,0.002045,-0.034807,0.006983,-0.007793,0.018731,0.015827,-0.001629,0.004906,-0.002608,0.001394,0.002137,-0.001251,0.007362,0.001978,0.004067,0.003735,0.001557
Ingrians:9,0.130897,0.091398,0.086361,0.075582,0.024928,0.018407,0.008225,0.014307,0.003681,-0.026424,0.006496,-0.003447,0.016353,0.010597,-0.002172,-0.000265,0.00326,-0.00114,-0.001006,0.004377,0.005366,-0.001607,0.008751,-0.001687,0.00455
Ingrians:10,0.132035,0.090382,0.081081,0.075259,0.03139,0.02259,0.011281,0.015922,-0.001636,-0.029158,0.003735,-0.006894,0.015312,0.012248,-0.000679,-0.008088,-0.016168,-0.001774,-0.005154,0.000625,0.001248,-0.000742,0.000493,0.00012,0.004071
Ingrians:11,0.129758,0.084289,0.089,0.07752,0.030775,0.023985,0.01081,0.016845,0.003068,-0.024966,0.004222,-0.010491,0.02334,0.007294,-0.006107,0.013392,0.016689,-0.000633,-0.00088,0.000375,-0.002745,0.001607,0.008751,-0.000482,0.001317
Ingrians:12,0.130897,0.091398,0.090509,0.073967,0.033237,0.024821,0.014806,0.020999,0.000205,-0.032985,0.006983,-0.009292,0.014717,0.011423,-0.001629,0.000796,-0.004694,0.001267,0.00088,0.000375,0.004991,-0.000742,0.007272,-0.003494,0.008981
Ingrians:13,0.132035,0.080227,0.096543,0.082042,0.030159,0.021475,0.010105,0.015692,-0.003477,-0.023144,0.007795,-0.004946,0.018583,0.007982,-0.001086,0.021877,0.008214,-0.003674,-0.00176,0.007128,0.002121,-0.000989,0.004807,0.008435,0.002874
Ingrians:14,0.12862,0.088351,0.087492,0.073321,0.030775,0.019801,0.005405,0.016153,-0.002045,-0.025695,0.001461,-0.013788,0.02111,0.020781,-0.013979,-0.013259,-0.008605,0.00076,-0.000754,0.004377,0.003619,-0.008037,0.007395,-0.003012,-0.004191
Ingrians:15,0.124067,0.084289,0.085229,0.076874,0.023697,0.0251,0.00987,0.018922,0.003068,-0.032985,0.006496,-0.01079,0.017245,0.016652,-0.004343,0.005569,-0.003651,0.002787,0.004902,0.006253,0.006489,-0.004451,0.008627,0.001807,0.003113
Ingrians:16,0.134311,0.093429,0.093903,0.07752,0.031698,0.021753,0.00752,0.012692,0.004295,-0.026606,0.00341,-0.013188,0.021704,0.010459,-0.005972,0.002519,-0.002217,-0.004307,0.001383,0.003252,0.001872,-0.000989,-0.001109,-0.002892,0.004071
Ingrians:17,0.134311,0.093429,0.09164,0.077843,0.029544,0.028447,0.014571,0.014999,0.001023,-0.028976,0,-0.009442,0.022596,0.018166,-0.004614,0.008088,-0.004303,0.001647,0.00264,-0.003502,0.003244,0.001237,0.004067,0.000843,-0.003113
Ingrians:18,0.126344,0.091398,0.087115,0.071383,0.032621,0.027331,0.005875,0.011999,-0.000205,-0.023508,0.000162,-0.007044,0.01888,0.007294,-0.007872,0.0118,0.004563,-0.001647,-0.001508,-0.002251,0.004243,-0.004699,0.003328,-0.006989,0.001078
Ingrian_Finns:1,0.130897,0.088351,0.084475,0.078166,0.023081,0.019243,0.007755,0.011999,-0.00634,-0.032985,0.005196,-0.01109,0.014717,0.010597,0.000136,-0.001591,-0.002608,0.001394,0.004525,-0.005628,0.010107,0.000247,0.006286,0.005181,0.008981
Ingrian_Finns:2,0.130897,0.096475,0.087869,0.077197,0.029544,0.023706,0.00987,0.011538,-0.00409,-0.027518,0.00682,-0.008992,0.01665,0.012111,0.000407,-0.011138,-0.015125,0.002154,-0.000126,0.001376,0.006114,-0.004699,0.005176,0.005181,0.009819
Ingrian_Finns:3,0.133173,0.081242,0.091263,0.083657,0.030775,0.026774,0.00611,0.011999,0.003068,-0.023873,0.002598,-0.008093,0.016055,0.013212,0.00665,-0.006364,-0.007953,-0.002914,-0.001634,0.002501,0.013975,0.00643,0.004437,0.00482,-0.004311
Ingrian_Finns:4,0.129758,0.078196,0.095789,0.081719,0.032929,0.028447,0.00987,0.013384,0.005318,-0.028064,0.006658,-0.007943,0.014123,0.005918,-0.002579,-0.001724,0.00013,-0.0019,-0.001131,0.005002,0.011979,-0.002968,-0.002095,0.001687,0.000239
Ingrian_Finns:5,0.134311,0.088351,0.100314,0.084949,0.032314,0.027889,0.00987,0.014307,-0.001227,-0.027153,0.005359,-0.009591,0.016353,0.010735,0.004343,0.003447,-0.005215,-0.00266,-0.001006,0,0.011355,-0.003957,-0.003574,0.00494,0.003113
Ingrian_Finns:6,0.12862,0.089367,0.093903,0.07752,0.025851,0.0251,0.00893,0.009692,-0.000205,-0.024784,0.008931,-0.008542,0.020961,0.014863,-0.000814,-0.011138,-0.013169,0.005448,-0.002137,-0.001501,0.006364,0.000247,0.005793,0.00735,-0.000718
Ingrian_Finns:7,0.127482,0.081242,0.09164,0.078166,0.030467,0.021753,0.00893,0.015461,-0.0045,-0.024055,0.00747,-0.009591,0.013825,0.002064,-0.001764,0.000663,-0.006519,0.00152,-0.000503,0.005002,0.009234,0.006554,0.010723,0.000241,-0.000239
Ingrian_Finns:8,0.130897,0.084289,0.090509,0.073321,0.03139,0.019801,0.00752,0.011769,-0.001227,-0.023873,0.009743,-0.008393,0.015758,0.012248,-0.004207,0.002784,-0.001304,0.000887,-0.000126,0.009129,0.002496,0.001237,0.001725,0.000241,0.000479
Ingrian_Finns:9,0.126344,0.082258,0.089378,0.077843,0.02739,0.022311,0.00658,0.016153,0.002863,-0.029522,0.011042,-0.008992,0.014271,0.016102,0.003122,-0.002387,-0.007171,-0.003547,-0.00264,0.007504,0.002995,-0.005935,0.006779,0.005422,0.008502
Ingrian_Finns:10,0.129758,0.080227,0.086738,0.085918,0.029236,0.027889,0.008225,0.014999,-0.001023,-0.030616,0.002436,-0.018583,0.020515,0.003853,0.00095,0.012066,0.016559,-0.000507,0,0.006628,0.011854,-0.004451,0.000123,0.006145,-0.00455
Ingrian_Finns:11,0.12862,0.081242,0.097674,0.076228,0.032314,0.018128,0.00752,0.01823,0.005727,-0.032985,0.008769,-0.007943,0.026313,0.00055,-0.002443,0.001856,0.018123,-0.005321,0.003268,0.011506,0.004742,0.001855,0.002958,0.005663,0.003592
Karelians_(North):1,0.124067,0.072103,0.095789,0.081396,0.022466,0.02008,0.00329,0.013384,0.005522,-0.030616,0.003897,-0.008842,0.02334,0.003578,-0.006243,-0.000133,0.001434,-0.001267,-0.002765,0.006503,0.002995,-0.002102,0.001479,0.006386,0.004311
Karelians_(North):2,0.121791,0.075149,0.088623,0.072029,0.022773,0.029841,0.004465,0.015461,-0.005522,-0.032438,0.00065,-0.004496,0.019029,0.004542,-0.002579,0.000663,0.003651,-0.003927,-0.001634,0.003001,0.003119,0.004451,0.005423,0.003976,-0.000359
Karelians_(North):3,0.127482,0.072103,0.101445,0.082365,0.03139,0.014781,0.0094,0.01823,0.003681,-0.03262,0.001786,-0.010491,0.020367,0.014038,-0.005429,0.000398,0.001956,0.000507,-0.002263,0.009505,0.007736,-0.001607,-0.003328,-0.006627,0.008622
Karelians_(North):4,0.129758,0.085304,0.09164,0.078489,0.023081,0.022311,0.004935,0.013153,-0.000409,-0.026606,0.005521,-0.005095,0.015312,0.012386,0.000271,-0.006364,-0.013169,0.007601,-0.001131,-0.002876,0.001622,-0.000866,0.007148,0.005543,-0.00455
Karelians_(North):5,0.129758,0.080227,0.096166,0.080427,0.025543,0.018128,0.013631,0.010615,0.000205,-0.034625,0.01088,-0.012439,0.019623,0.004954,-0.007736,0.007425,0.015516,-0.004054,-0.003897,0.008754,0.006988,-0.005812,0.003204,0.004338,-0.002155
Karelians_(SE_Karelians_(SE_Ludic):1,0.129758,0.082258,0.082589,0.072029,0.030467,0.024821,0.01034,0.014769,-0.000409,-0.025695,0.00341,-0.007943,0.020515,0.011423,-0.010858,0.012861,0.02047,0.00076,0.002137,0.007754,0.002496,-0.009645,0.000123,-0.005422,-0.000958
Karelians_(SE_Karelians_(SE_Ludic):2,0.129758,0.074134,0.093526,0.083334,0.02739,0.020638,0.009165,0.009,0.0045,-0.024784,0.00406,-0.014687,0.018434,0.011973,-0.000679,0.002121,-0.001695,-0.004687,-0.003017,0.007128,0.001872,0.000495,-0.000616,0.006507,0.007065
Karelians_(SE_Karelians_(SE_Ludic):3,0.124067,0.075149,0.093903,0.075582,0.024928,0.020917,0.015276,0.012692,-0.002045,-0.029704,0.013478,-0.007943,0.018583,0.010597,0.001357,-0.012861,-0.013299,-0.000887,-0.000754,0.001876,0.007487,-0.00136,-0.004067,0.007712,0.009819
Karelians_(SE_Karelians_(SE_Ludic):4,0.127482,0.078196,0.099183,0.069445,0.020311,0.022032,0.00893,0.013615,0.002659,-0.033349,0.009419,-0.011839,0.017542,0.016239,-0.001086,-0.005436,-0.021253,-0.000253,-0.002137,0.006503,-0.001872,0.002844,-0.001232,-0.004579,0.001437
Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi):1,0.126344,0.071087,0.092017,0.08075,0.031698,0.015897,0.01081,0.016153,-0.000818,-0.035536,0.003735,-0.014987,0.022745,0.00812,-0.0076,-0.004906,-0.003651,-0.001647,-0.003645,-0.003001,0.004492,0.005193,0.008627,0.003012,-0.000479
Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi):2,0.132035,0.084289,0.095034,0.085595,0.034468,0.021475,0.013866,0.020999,0.010022,-0.028793,0.000812,-0.012589,0.021258,0.00289,0.001764,0.009944,0.00691,0.000507,-0.004902,0.01063,0.00574,-0.001855,0.005053,-0.00253,-0.002634
Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi):3,0.132035,0.100537,0.087115,0.06783,0.031698,0.022869,0.010105,0.013615,0,-0.019499,-0.00341,-0.008842,0.022299,0.010735,-0.013979,0.009546,0.017993,-0.003801,-0.000754,0.012381,-0.006364,-0.003091,0.000123,0.00241,-0.001437
Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi):4,0.126344,0.080227,0.094657,0.081719,0.034776,0.020917,0.0094,0.013153,0.002454,-0.024784,0.008769,-0.008393,0.011447,0.011147,-0.002986,-0.000928,0.002477,0.001267,-0.003897,0.001376,0.005116,-0.005441,-0.005546,0.001807,0.008981
Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi):5,0.127482,0.061947,0.093526,0.078489,0.020619,0.028447,0.011751,0.014769,0.002454,-0.025878,0.003248,-0.011989,0.019623,-0.000138,-0.00665,0.010607,0.012517,0.000253,0.001885,-5e-04,0.004367,-0.001113,0.00493,0.003856,0.007903
Karelians_(Tver):1,0.124067,0.084289,0.090509,0.072029,0.030775,0.023427,0.012691,0.016845,0,-0.029704,-0.003085,-0.007343,0.015609,0.012248,-0.004479,-0.002652,0.004172,0.00114,0.001508,0.001626,0.005615,0.004451,-0.002465,-0.003253,-0.001078
Karelians_(Tver):2,0.133173,0.093429,0.078064,0.07429,0.029544,0.015897,0.008225,0.018922,0.00225,-0.025878,0.002111,-0.007643,0.014123,0.014175,-0.00665,0.008088,0.013951,-0.003421,-0.007165,0.005127,-0.001373,-0.006554,0.002835,0.008194,-0.001197
Karelians_(Tver):3,0.125205,0.083273,0.081081,0.078489,0.026774,0.019243,0.00564,0.013846,-0.001227,-0.035536,0.001786,-0.011989,0.021556,0.009496,-0.015065,0.012198,0.017471,-0.004054,0.00088,0.004127,0.006114,-0.005812,0.004437,-0.002169,0.002634
Karelians_(Tver):4,0.134311,0.092413,0.082212,0.067184,0.034776,0.020359,0.011986,0.012692,-0.001023,-0.02442,0.00747,-0.007793,0.016799,0.014588,-0.006379,-0.014452,-0.015646,0.00228,0.001131,-0.003752,0.004617,-0.000247,0.006902,-0.004699,0.005628
Karelians_(Tver):5,0.130897,0.089367,0.091263,0.073644,0.032929,0.013666,0.011751,0.021691,0.004295,-0.025149,0.005684,-0.013188,0.01888,0.012111,-0.008822,-0.000133,-0.001304,0,-0.001508,0.001,0.009733,0.006059,0.008011,-0.001446,-0.001197
Karelians_(Tver):6,0.132035,0.098506,0.081081,0.073321,0.030467,0.023985,0.0094,0.01223,0.008181,-0.026606,0.008931,-0.006894,0.018285,0.018304,-0.008279,-0.004906,-0.009518,-0.000507,0.009427,0.00025,0.00287,-0.002597,0.003821,0.000723,0.00491
Karelians_(Tver):7,0.124067,0.090382,0.089378,0.083657,0.032621,0.026774,0.011986,0.020307,0.007567,-0.029704,0.002273,-0.015137,0.020069,0.018029,0.001493,-0.012729,-0.012908,0.000253,-0.008799,0.005878,0.00861,0.001113,0.003821,-0.006748,0.005868
Karelians_(Tver):8,0.126344,0.085304,0.088246,0.077197,0.032006,0.020638,0.013161,0.013384,0.005318,-0.027153,0.004872,-0.007044,0.014866,0.015276,-0.006379,-0.008618,-0.010431,0.00076,0,0.000125,0.003743,-0.008903,0.002958,-0.004338,-0.001557
Karelians_(Tver):9,0.129758,0.101553,0.087492,0.072352,0.029236,0.023148,0.00893,0.010384,-0.002045,-0.023508,0.001949,-0.005995,0.014569,0.013625,-0.002443,0.006895,-0.001956,0.000127,0.003017,0.004627,0.003244,0.001113,0.007148,-0.000723,0.000239
Karelians_(Tver):10,0.130897,0.092413,0.09164,0.079781,0.028621,0.02761,0.00564,0.010615,-0.005931,-0.024784,0.000162,-0.012589,0.018137,0.018854,0.003529,-0.005701,-0.018515,-0.007728,-0.004274,0.003627,0.001622,0,0.001232,-0.004579,0.004191
Karelians_(Tver):11,0.12862,0.094444,0.085229,0.081073,0.031698,0.020638,0.0094,0.011999,-0.00859,-0.030069,-0.001949,-0.006145,0.01665,0.009358,-0.005836,0.009944,0.015776,-0.001267,0.005405,0.011506,0.004617,-0.006059,0.003328,0.001446,-0.002754
Novgorod_(Kabozha):1,0.136588,0.098506,0.078818,0.076874,0.028621,0.028168,0.007755,0.017307,0,-0.032802,-0.000162,-0.01154,0.020069,0.023946,-0.006107,-0.002652,-0.007432,-0.002914,0.001885,-0.002376,-0.00025,-0.003091,0.004437,-0.005784,0.002155
Novgorod_(Kabozha):2,0.135449,0.107646,0.087492,0.068153,0.035391,0.029841,0.01034,0.009461,-0.004295,-0.026789,-0.007307,-0.008992,0.017691,0.024634,-0.009365,0.012994,0.02047,0.002787,-0.005279,-0.001376,0.001622,-0.00643,0.005916,-0.002892,0.000838
Novgorod_(Kabozha):3,0.129758,0.09546,0.083344,0.073644,0.032929,0.019243,0.01081,0.011769,-0.006545,-0.02934,0.005034,-0.01154,0.02111,0.006193,-0.010586,-0.009414,0.001956,-0.002534,0.003897,0.001751,-0.000624,-0.012118,0.008751,-0.002289,0.002754
Novgorod_(Kabozha):4,0.129758,0.100537,0.082589,0.08075,0.038776,0.018686,0.008225,0.013153,0.006749,-0.023691,-0.001461,-0.010641,0.020515,0.021744,-0.006922,-0.009281,-0.009909,0.00038,0.007542,0.007379,0.008735,-0.002844,0.0053,-0.003374,-0.003473
Novgorod_(Kabozha):5,0.127482,0.09546,0.07995,0.075582,0.03693,0.020917,0.008695,0.012692,0.002045,-0.031709,-0.000162,-0.006744,0.016799,0.016652,-0.002986,0.005701,0.006389,-0.004054,-0.002137,0.003752,0.000125,-0.004328,0.003081,0.004579,0.005748
Novgorod_(Kabozha):6,0.129758,0.1046,0.084098,0.07106,0.036314,0.025658,0.011045,0.013153,-0.007567,-0.031162,0.00406,-0.010641,0.022299,0.021882,-0.015879,-0.007425,-0.007562,0.003674,0.000754,-0.007128,-0.003244,-0.002349,0.000739,-0.010845,0.000239
Novgorod_(Kabozha):7,0.129758,0.103584,0.079572,0.071706,0.044931,0.022311,0.009635,0.015692,0.010431,-0.022051,-0.003897,-0.006894,0.019623,0.024497,-0.013979,-0.013789,-0.006389,0.001774,0.001006,0.003752,-0.003244,-0.002349,0.003081,-0.003735,0.006347
Novgorod_(Lyubytino):1,0.12862,0.101553,0.085229,0.073967,0.038776,0.024263,0.01034,0.014307,-0.002659,-0.026242,0.000812,-0.004496,0.016055,0.013074,-0.015744,0.0179,0.025295,-0.003927,-0.003142,0.010505,0.000125,-0.000866,0.004067,0.002651,0.007065
Novgorod_(Lyubytino):2,0.127482,0.103584,0.078818,0.074936,0.040931,0.022869,0.011045,0.013846,0.000614,-0.030251,0.000162,-0.007493,0.024232,0.027112,-0.007736,-0.01127,-0.012908,-0.002154,0.004399,0.000625,0.003868,-0.004204,-0.001972,-0.00735,-0.000838
Novgorod_(Lyubytino):3,0.127482,0.1046,0.079572,0.065246,0.036007,0.02259,0.014336,0.012692,0.000205,-0.023144,-0.001624,-0.008243,0.018137,0.01445,-0.004886,0.001326,0.006128,0.00114,-0.002388,-0.00075,0.005241,0.001484,0.007765,0.001807,-0.001916
Novgorod_(other):1,0.12862,0.108662,0.081081,0.067507,0.033545,0.031515,0.011751,0.014076,0.000409,-0.025878,0.000487,-0.007643,0.01442,0.026286,-0.009093,-0.008751,-0.008866,-0.002154,0.001006,0.003252,-0.002246,0.001978,0.004807,0.000361,-0.000239
Novgorod_(other):2,0.130897,0.099522,0.080327,0.077843,0.033852,0.0251,0.008695,0.011076,-0.001227,-0.033167,-0.00065,-0.008992,0.019029,0.018717,-0.01045,0.010607,0.011865,-0.002027,0.002011,0.007879,0.00025,-0.005441,0.005546,0.005663,0.005987
Novgorod_(other):3,0.136588,0.105615,0.072407,0.065246,0.029236,0.02008,0.009165,0.012692,-0.004909,-0.025695,0.004222,-0.010341,0.016204,0.010184,-0.013572,0.01074,0.018384,-0.00114,0.002765,0.004252,-0.001996,-0.001237,0.012202,0.002892,0.002275
Novgorod_(other):4,0.130897,0.110693,0.073916,0.072352,0.031083,0.021753,0.013866,0.011307,0.002454,-0.028793,-0.000812,-0.017834,0.020367,0.018304,-0.010043,-0.010342,-0.008866,-0.00076,0.008799,-0.003252,-0.001248,-0.001607,0.008997,-0.000602,-0.004071
Novgorod_(other):5,0.122929,0.101553,0.060339,0.06137,0.029236,0.023706,0.011516,0.017999,0.001636,-0.023691,0.000974,-0.005245,0.020664,0.014588,-0.012215,-0.004243,0.004433,-0.005321,0.003017,-0.004127,-0.002496,-0.009892,0.009983,-0.001084,0.002515
Pskov_(Ostrov):1,0.134311,0.122879,0.089378,0.084303,0.044624,0.025379,0.00799,0.014538,-0.004295,-0.035718,0.001299,-0.009591,0.018137,0.03592,-0.011536,-0.005834,-0.008866,-0.0019,0.002765,-0.003377,-0.000125,-0.013354,0.004683,-0.008676,0.000599
Pskov_(Ostrov):2,0.134311,0.121864,0.079195,0.07752,0.037238,0.029562,0.00987,0.012923,-0.002863,-0.031527,-0.003085,-0.009292,0.020812,0.03069,-0.011401,-0.003315,0.002608,-0.006208,-0.00176,0.001376,-0.004866,-0.005441,0.003944,-0.011809,0.005149
Pskov_(Ostrov):3,0.133173,0.116786,0.084475,0.072998,0.040007,0.025658,0.0047,0.013384,-0.000614,-0.028429,-0.002111,-0.013938,0.018583,0.01913,-0.008958,0.003315,0.002868,-0.005701,0.003017,0.006378,0.004991,-0.008037,0.006286,-0.010965,0.004071
Pskov_(Ostrov):4,0.132035,0.119832,0.084098,0.091409,0.041238,0.036814,0.014806,0.018922,-0.003477,-0.036994,0.002273,-0.008992,0.021258,0.022432,-0.008822,-0.000133,0.004824,-0.007095,-0.001508,0.005503,-0.005615,-0.002349,0.00493,-0.014942,0.001197
Pskov_(Ostrov):5,0.129758,0.127957,0.084475,0.074936,0.040931,0.029005,0.009635,0.015692,0.000818,-0.030433,-0.002598,-0.014087,0.028394,0.028626,-0.011943,-0.007558,-0.01017,-0.004181,0.003394,-0.000125,0.002371,-0.009892,0.003328,-0.01458,-0.004311
Pskov_(Ostrov):6,0.134311,0.118817,0.083344,0.086241,0.045239,0.030957,0.012221,0.020768,0.000409,-0.032802,-0.008931,-0.011989,0.023637,0.024084,-0.011265,0.014585,0.011604,-0.002154,0.003394,0.012756,-0.001996,-0.004451,0.00456,-0.001325,-0.006706
Pskov_(Ostrov):7,0.127482,0.125926,0.084475,0.082042,0.040623,0.026216,0.015041,0.017307,0.000409,-0.026242,-0.001461,-0.013338,0.02111,0.021882,-0.012622,0.006762,0.012647,-0.00266,0.007416,0.001,0.003119,-0.011623,0.007518,-0.011568,0.002754
Pskov_(Ostrov):8,0.134311,0.116786,0.081081,0.075582,0.038776,0.024821,0.009635,0.018461,-0.002454,-0.027335,-0.003897,-0.011839,0.015015,0.027662,-0.008007,-0.011933,-0.005607,0.001647,0.000628,0.002376,-0.00287,-0.007296,0.012202,-0.004458,0.002515
Pskov_(Ostrov):9,0.137726,0.121864,0.079195,0.071383,0.048317,0.02259,0.00846,0.012923,0.001841,-0.025149,-0.001461,-0.009591,0.019772,0.024772,-0.014522,0.00769,0.005346,0.004181,0.004022,0.006003,-0.00262,-0.011623,0.010476,-0.006025,0.003473
Pskov_(Ostrov):10,0.132035,0.122879,0.083721,0.081396,0.045239,0.031515,0.011516,0.017076,0.005727,-0.030433,-0.004872,-0.012439,0.027354,0.027937,-0.012351,0.005436,0.004563,-0.002154,0.005279,0.001876,-0.005241,-0.006925,0.008504,-0.00964,0.002634
Pskov_(Ostrov):11,0.129758,0.117801,0.084098,0.058463,0.043393,0.029562,0.014806,0.020538,0.001227,-0.026971,-0.001949,-0.013638,0.021556,0.030002,-0.013029,-0.01074,-0.00665,-0.001647,0.003394,0.000125,-0.004991,0.000742,0.004067,-0.004458,-0.001796
Pskov_(Porkhov):1,0.130897,0.118817,0.082967,0.069768,0.048624,0.02008,0.010575,0.018461,-0.003477,-0.02934,-0.003248,-0.014387,0.023934,0.02202,-0.018458,0.01485,0.024903,0.001014,0.000251,0.002376,-0.001373,-0.003215,0.006286,-0.002651,-0.001916
Pskov_(Porkhov):2,0.127482,0.122879,0.085984,0.071383,0.038469,0.032072,0.016451,0.010153,-0.004909,-0.02606,0.002436,-0.01124,0.02111,0.023809,-0.016422,0.001458,0.005215,-0.003041,0.004274,0.01063,0.001622,-0.002473,0.00912,-0.011568,0.003113
Pskov_(Porkhov):3,0.137726,0.113739,0.076555,0.072352,0.039392,0.026495,0.014101,0.017538,-0.002045,-0.0277,-0.002436,-0.013488,0.024826,0.021744,-0.008686,-0.015513,-0.010822,-0.001774,0.004777,-0.004627,0.000998,-0.008656,0.003328,0.003615,0.002994
Pskov_(Porkhov):4,0.133173,0.114755,0.083344,0.072998,0.044931,0.02761,0.019036,0.018692,-0.001432,-0.030616,0.001137,-0.010641,0.019475,0.017065,-0.008415,0.014054,0.018384,-0.000253,0.002263,0.007504,-0.004118,-0.002844,0.006409,-0.005302,0.004431
Pskov_(Porkhov):5,0.129758,0.116786,0.07731,0.072352,0.030775,0.024821,0.010105,0.010384,-0.000409,-0.026971,-0.008607,-0.007343,0.022894,0.034543,-0.013301,-0.010872,-0.011213,-0.003547,-0.000126,-0.002001,-0.002121,0.000371,0.001972,-0.010604,0.003113
Pskov_(Porkhov):6,0.133173,0.11577,0.086738,0.077197,0.044008,0.021475,0.012221,0.01523,-0.00225,-0.028429,-0.00682,-0.009741,0.015163,0.028488,-0.010179,-0.010872,-0.00326,-0.005954,-0.000754,-0.004627,-0.004367,-0.00643,0.012078,-0.004338,0.000239
Pskov_(Porkhov):7,0.134311,0.113739,0.083721,0.079781,0.039392,0.029284,0.00893,0.015461,-0.000409,-0.038452,-0.007632,-0.007194,0.020812,0.03647,-0.012893,-0.011535,-0.003781,0.001394,0.001006,0.005378,-0.005241,0.000124,0.006779,-0.011447,-0.001557
Pskov_(Porkhov):8,0.134311,0.113739,0.082967,0.069768,0.039084,0.028168,0.015041,0.020076,-0.008181,-0.025331,0.004547,-0.014837,0.02215,0.024084,-0.008822,-0.012331,-0.01004,-0.00228,-0.004525,-0.011255,-0.005366,-0.00643,0.008381,-0.008194,-0.000718
Pskov_(Porkhov):9,0.129758,0.118817,0.073539,0.07106,0.042162,0.024263,0.01034,0.019845,-0.001432,-0.026789,0.001299,-0.009142,0.019623,0.02202,-0.007465,0.00053,0.011083,0.001014,-0.000377,0.005378,-0.002246,-0.00136,-0.000123,-0.00735,-0.001078
Pskov_(Porkhov):10,0.132035,0.117801,0.087492,0.06783,0.042777,0.027331,0.00611,0.010846,0.002454,-0.023144,-0.000487,-0.008243,0.018285,0.029864,-0.00855,-0.009812,-0.009518,-0.003547,0.012444,-0.000625,0,-0.008037,0.010106,-0.008435,0.007544
Pskov_(Porkhov):11,0.136588,0.112724,0.084475,0.079458,0.040623,0.032909,0.0094,0.008769,-0.003681,-0.02606,-0.002598,-0.005395,0.016947,0.014313,-0.010586,0.0118,0.022426,-0.006588,-0.003645,0.002751,-0.008111,-0.009027,0.003821,-0.005061,-0.001317
Pskov_(Porkhov):12,0.133173,0.11577,0.077687,0.069445,0.040931,0.01757,0.014806,0.019845,-0.000205,-0.029158,0.002273,-0.012139,0.019921,0.029038,-0.005972,-0.007955,-0.006519,-0.001647,-0.000251,-0.004877,-0.007487,-0.010881,0.006902,-0.013255,-0.002036
Pskov_(Porkhov):13,0.130897,0.114755,0.089755,0.069768,0.035083,0.0251,0.011281,0.011307,0.001636,-0.031709,-0.001786,-0.006444,0.019772,0.026424,-0.006515,-0.006232,-0.008214,0.003547,0.006034,0.005378,0.001373,-0.010881,0.001109,-0.003976,0.002155
Pskov_(Porkhov):14,0.134311,0.125926,0.078064,0.076874,0.040315,0.025937,0.008225,0.007846,-0.002045,-0.027518,-0.002273,-0.01124,0.023934,0.028488,-0.009772,0.011403,0.026338,-0.004054,0.007793,0.004127,0.000125,-0.000742,0.004437,-0.002651,-0.004311
Veps:1,0.124067,0.074134,0.096166,0.08398,0.018773,0.023148,0.010575,0.01223,-0.000205,-0.028793,0.006496,-0.007793,0.020812,0.006055,-0.004479,-0.000928,0.00665,-0.002787,-0.00352,0.007504,0.00549,0.00136,0.005423,0.001205,-0.001078
Veps:2,0.122929,0.071087,0.094657,0.084626,0.027082,0.021475,0.011516,0.011307,-0.000205,-0.03262,0.003897,-0.010191,0.022448,0.019405,-0.005429,-0.005569,-0.005476,0.000887,-0.002388,-0.000875,0.009109,-0.006554,-0.000246,0.001566,0.004071
Veps:3,0.121791,0.074134,0.096543,0.081073,0.018773,0.023985,0.007755,0.010846,0.007772,-0.031891,0.008119,-0.012139,0.019326,0.018854,-0.002036,-0.008088,-0.01708,0.000507,-0.002011,0.001626,0.004991,-0.00136,0.000863,0.005181,0.004431
Veps:4,0.124067,0.072103,0.084098,0.082688,0.021542,0.02259,0.009165,0.010384,0.001227,-0.03098,0.001786,-0.008093,0.015461,0.005092,-0.012215,0.011535,0.01708,-0.00266,0.000251,0.003001,0.002371,-0.006925,0.005916,0.008555,0.000599
Veps:5,0.127482,0.074134,0.091263,0.076551,0.026466,0.024542,0.012456,0.013384,-0.000409,-0.031162,0.001786,-0.013038,0.022745,0.009221,-0.007872,-0.003978,0.00678,-0.003801,-0.003771,0.009379,0.004118,-0.001113,0.000986,0.005784,0.008742
Veps:6,0.127482,0.073118,0.093149,0.077843,0.023389,0.019522,0.016451,0.014999,0.004295,-0.030616,0.010393,-0.011839,0.026016,0.014175,-0.0057,-0.011933,-0.011865,-0.003421,-0.003645,0.004377,0.002496,-0.001731,0.004683,0,0.006826
Veps:7,0.135449,0.085304,0.09164,0.081719,0.026774,0.032072,0.015511,0.01823,-0.002045,-0.033531,0.006983,-0.014087,0.024232,0.009083,-0.013029,-0.002784,-0.00013,0.00266,-0.009679,0.006878,0.010107,-0.007419,0.001356,0.000843,0.005628
Veps:8,0.132035,0.076165,0.089755,0.074613,0.024312,0.020359,0.011045,0.011999,0.000614,-0.032256,0.001299,-0.008842,0.022299,0.013074,-0.012893,0.005304,0.008605,-0.004561,-0.002011,0.008254,0.00836,-0.004204,0.004314,0.006145,0.001796
Veps:9,0.129758,0.088351,0.082967,0.065569,0.02739,0.022869,0.01081,0.013846,0.003886,-0.028793,0.003897,-0.004346,0.021556,0.013349,-0.007872,-0.006232,0.000261,-0.003041,-0.001383,0.006128,0.003244,-0.006925,0.005053,-0.003735,0.002515
Votes:10,0.136588,0.100537,0.095412,0.071706,0.032006,0.023706,0.017156,0.017999,-0.00859,-0.037723,0.008119,-0.005545,0.014717,0.01679,-0.005836,0.000928,0.00339,-0.002154,0.002765,0.009379,0.003244,-0.006183,0.002465,-0.000482,0.003473
Votes:11,0.126344,0.087336,0.089755,0.085918,0.036007,0.02761,0.00846,0.018692,0.002045,-0.033714,-0.002436,-0.01124,0.021556,0.009909,-0.005293,0.006232,0.002738,0.00076,-0.00817,0.002501,0.001497,0,0.000986,-0.002771,0.001078
Votes:12,0.12862,0.1046,0.086361,0.079135,0.03139,0.02761,0.00799,0.017307,-0.000614,-0.028611,-0.005846,-0.009442,0.019475,0.011698,-0.007193,0.006895,0.004433,-0.00266,-0.002765,0.004377,0.004617,-0.002349,0.004067,0.003976,0.00012
Votes:13,0.130897,0.09546,0.084098,0.077197,0.03139,0.0251,0.0094,0.014076,-0.001432,-0.02934,0.002111,-0.01139,0.016204,0.013349,-0.0076,0.005436,0.008996,0.002154,0.004022,0.005378,0.001248,-0.001237,0.001232,-0.000964,0.005149
Yaroslavl_(Mologa):1,0.130897,0.1046,0.082212,0.071706,0.02739,0.026495,0.009635,0.016845,-0.001227,-0.024966,0.002598,-0.008992,0.017988,0.015551,-0.005429,-0.003713,0.006128,-0.00076,0.004022,0.000375,0.000873,-0.003339,0.001725,-0.002048,0.006466
Yaroslavl_(Mologa):2,0.134311,0.103584,0.07995,0.071383,0.037853,0.02008,0.00611,0.014307,0.003681,-0.023326,0.001624,-0.012139,0.020515,0.015964,-0.012486,0.002254,0.00326,-0.008361,-0.005531,0,-0.000125,-0.012118,-0.001356,-0.015665,0.00012
Yaroslavl_(Mologa):3,0.133173,0.109677,0.081835,0.055233,0.029236,0.018407,0.00564,0.011769,-0.001227,-0.023326,-0.006496,-0.007793,0.017988,0.021744,-0.0076,-0.008353,-0.013038,0.0019,0.006285,-0.002376,-0.004617,-0.008532,-0.004807,-0.001205,-0.00455
Yaroslavl_(other):1,0.12862,0.110693,0.07731,0.066215,0.030467,0.020359,0.006345,0.013846,-0.001636,-0.031345,0.00341,-0.007194,0.012785,0.019542,-0.014522,-0.005569,0.000391,-0.002407,0.001383,-0.002751,-0.013351,0.000124,0.013804,-0.00494,0.002634
Yaroslavl_(other):2,0.129758,0.112724,0.081081,0.063631,0.039084,0.026495,0.008225,0.01223,-0.003477,-0.028247,0.001786,-0.01079,0.022448,0.023671,-0.0095,-0.009414,-0.015125,0.004307,-0.001383,0,0.003868,-0.001113,0.001232,-0.00482,0.001317
Yaroslavl_(other):3,0.133173,0.11577,0.075424,0.063954,0.037545,0.021475,0.007755,0.008307,0.001432,-0.020228,0.005196,-0.003897,0.017988,0.021744,-0.011536,-0.007558,-0.006258,0.00152,0.00176,-0.004002,-0.002745,-0.002473,0.005423,-0.014339,0.002275
Yaroslavl_(other):4,0.12862,0.105615,0.078818,0.062985,0.03416,0.025379,0.012221,0.014538,0.000614,-0.023691,0.003085,-0.005395,0.020218,0.01679,-0.007329,-0.007027,-0.013038,-0.003167,0.005531,-0.013632,-0.007237,-0.010758,0.003944,-0.001446,0.006826
Yaroslavl_(other):5,0.129758,0.106631,0.075424,0.062662,0.03693,0.02259,0.014101,0.014999,0.001227,-0.023873,-0.000325,-0.006744,0.020664,0.016102,-0.006243,0.008486,0.005867,-0.002407,0.002388,0.003502,-0.007986,-0.004575,-0.001356,-0.001325,-0.004071
Yaroslavl_(other):6,0.130897,0.1046,0.078818,0.065246,0.02739,0.023985,0.007755,0.014999,-0.007976,-0.027335,-0.000812,-0.010491,0.012339,0.016652,-0.004614,-0.006629,-0.011995,0,0.002765,5e-04,0.003119,0.002349,0.006655,-0.003976,0.002275
Yaroslavl_(other):7,0.133173,0.113739,0.087492,0.071383,0.036622,0.027052,0.01081,0.022845,-0.000614,-0.0277,-0.001299,-0.007044,0.019475,0.014038,-0.001764,0.000265,-0.00013,-0.003041,-0.004777,0.003752,0.001622,-0.001113,0.005176,-0.006627,0.001437
Yaroslavl_(other):8,0.133173,0.116786,0.07995,0.070414,0.03693,0.0251,0.015041,0.014769,0.002454,-0.026424,-0.001299,-0.008243,0.014123,0.015001,-0.008958,0.001724,0.010691,-0.005574,-0.001634,-0.002626,-0.003743,-0.002226,0.001725,-0.006627,-0.004311
Yaroslavl_(other):9,0.133173,0.112724,0.072784,0.060078,0.033237,0.027052,0.0094,0.011999,-0.002454,-0.023873,0.004709,-0.008243,0.014123,0.017478,-0.004614,0.002254,0.009518,0.005954,-0.000628,0.005378,-0.002371,-0.002102,0.008997,-0.007832,-0.001916
Yaroslavl_(other):10,0.132035,0.106631,0.07731,0.063631,0.03416,0.023706,0.00658,0.007384,0.00409,-0.020046,-0.002761,-0.005095,0.014123,0.020643,-0.002579,-0.007558,-0.013951,-0.000887,-0.00088,-5e-04,-0.006364,-0.00272,0.008134,-0.007832,0.001197
Yaroslavl_(other):11,0.125205,0.101553,0.07731,0.069122,0.033545,0.016455,0.009635,0.008307,-0.007363,-0.026789,-0.001786,-0.004796,0.01665,0.021194,-0.004072,0.001591,0.00678,0.000507,0.005279,-0.001626,-0.004742,-0.004699,0.006779,0.005302,-0.005149
Yaroslavl_(other):12,0.129758,0.100537,0.07467,0.059109,0.03139,0.016733,0.0094,0.016153,-0.002659,-0.022962,0.009581,-0.01124,0.017542,0.013762,-0.013301,0.001061,0.003129,0.001394,0.000377,-0.000125,-0.001123,0.001855,0.00949,-0.004217,-0.003712
Yaroslavl_(other):13,0.126344,0.094444,0.078064,0.062016,0.030159,0.024821,0.011751,0.007154,-0.005727,-0.023508,0.000325,-0.01154,0.015163,0.016377,-0.006786,0.004243,0.00352,-0.004687,-0.00264,0.00025,-0.005615,-0.006554,0.012818,0.000482,0.003113

[Vastandus]

Eipä isälinjalla tunnu olevan hirveän paljon väliä. Esimerkiksi jokin lyydikköosaväestö jakaa sellaisia ominaisuuksia joita ilmeisesti CTS8565 toi Länsi- ja Lounais-Suomeen idästä päin vaikka näillä ei koko isälinjaa edes ole(Udmurtiasta kyllä löytyy vähän). Lyydiköillä tosin on myäs suhteessa vähän VL62-linjoja joten tämäkin ehkä vaikuttaa asiaan.

Target: Finnish_Southwest
Distance: 1.1086% / 0.01108643 | R3P
43.6 Karelians_(SE_Karelians_(SE_Ludic):4
32.0 Viking_Age_Swedish
24.4 Ancient_West_Finn_B

tosin sovitus on parempi savakolla

Target: Finnish_Southwest
Distance: 0.7212% / 0.00721248 | R4P
36.6 Ingrian_Finns:2
23.6 Viking_Age_Swedish
22.0 Karelians_(SE_Karelians_(SE_Ludic):4
17.8 Ancient_West_Finn_B

Oletettavasti Toppolanmäen vainajalla oli sekaisin alkuperäistä Hämettä ja "uutta" itätulokasta mutta ehkä voittoisasti alkuperäistä koska tämän mainittiin muistuttavan metsästäjä-keräilijöitä. Sanoisin että alkuperäinen Häme kai silti säilyi parhaiten Kanta-Hämeessä, eikä edes lounaisella välimurrevyöhykkeellä.

[Vastandus]

Elikkä jos inkeroisten CTS4329 on lähinnä xPH521 ja xCTS8565 onko heillä siis jotain ihan uutta alahaaraa joka sijoittuu juureen vai onko tutkijat sekoillut?
joka tapauksessa Inkeri voisi olla hyvinkin luontainen paikka kyseiselle linjastolle jos tämä olisi välittänyt esim. inkerin baltteja muistuttaneiden tarhisten perimää suomalaisiin ja saamelaisiin suoniin mutta olosuhteet huomioon ottaen tämä varmaankin voisi vihjata että kieli olisi jo varhain vaihtunut imsuksi siellä päin

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Elikkä jos inkeroisten CTS4329 on lähinnä xPH521 ja xCTS8565 onko heillä siis jotain ihan uutta alahaaraa joka sijoittuu juureen vai onko tutkijat sekoillut? joka tapauksessa Inkeri voisi olla hyvinkin luontainen paikka kyseiselle linjastolle jos tämä olisi välittänyt esim. inkerin baltteja muistuttaneiden tarhisten perimää suomalaisiin ja saamelaisiin suoniin mutta olosuhteet huomioon ottaen tämä varmaankin voisi vihjata että kieli olisi jo varhain vaihtunut imsuksi siellä päin

Tämä on erittäin hyvä kysymys. Miten "saamelais-savolainen" CTS4329, Jaskan termistöä lainatakseni, on toisaalta kuitenkin inkeroishaplo?

[Jaska]

Elikkä jos inkeroisten CTS4329 on lähinnä xPH521 ja xCTS8565 onko heillä siis jotain ihan uutta alahaaraa joka sijoittuu juureen vai onko tutkijat sekoillut? joka tapauksessa Inkeri voisi olla hyvinkin luontainen paikka kyseiselle linjastolle jos tämä olisi välittänyt esim. inkerin baltteja muistuttaneiden tarhisten perimää suomalaisiin ja saamelaisiin suoniin mutta olosuhteet huomioon ottaen tämä varmaankin voisi vihjata että kieli olisi jo varhain vaihtunut imsuksi siellä päin

Tämä on erittäin hyvä kysymys. Miten "saamelais-savolainen" CTS4329, Jaskan termistöä lainatakseni, on toisaalta kuitenkin inkeroishaplo?

Inkeroisista 20 % on VL62:n alla, heistä kaikki Z1941:n alla.

16 % on CTS4329:n alla, heistä 4 % (CTS8565 > Y125466 >) CTS3223:n alla ja 0 % PH521:n alla (se sarake on jäänyt taulukossa numerottomaksi, mutta laskutoimitusten perusteella millään näistä ryhmistä ei pitäisi olla siellä mitään, ei edes vienankarjalaisilla). 11 % edustaa muuta CTS4329:ä, kun muilla ryhmillä tämä sarake näyttää nollaa. (Puuttuva 1 % lienee vain prosenttien pyöristyksistä johtuva haamu: 9/58 olisi 15,517... %)

Kun PH521 näyttää edelleen saamelaiselta ja CTS8565 muinaissavolaiselta, niin pohjoinen alkuperä CTS4329:lle näyttää edelleen todennäköisimmältä. Kolmas poikalinjakaan ei tätä kuvaa vielä muuttaisi; vasta jos kaksi uutta primaaria poikalinjaa löytyisi inkeroisilta, tilanne olisi tasapeli ja voitaisiin alkaa spekuloida, vaikuttiko CTS4329 kenties Inkerissä. Riippuisi tietysti myös siitä, olisivatko ne uudet linjat yhtä vanhoja kuin nyt tunnetut vaiko vasta paljon nuorempia.

Autosomaalikomponenttien vertaaminen isälinjoihin on nykyisellä niukalla muinaisnäyteaineistolla pelkkää arvailua, jossa on myriadeja mahdollisia yhdistelmiä. Näillähän ei ole mitään keskinäistä riippuvuutta, vaan jo yhden sukupolven kuluttua pojan autosomaaliperimästä vain 50 % tulee isältä.

[Vastandus]

Jaska ei ole tainnut huomata että CTS8565:n juuritasot ovat kaakkoisia eivätkä pohjoisia. Jos sama pätee myös CTS4329:ään niin sanoisin että pohjoinen todennäköisyys romahtaa.
Inkeroiset muuten ovat oudon monimuotoinen väestö, mutta isälinjatkin kai tukevat että monelta suunnalta tultiin ja mentiin.


https://i.imgur.com/aNhflrV.png

Tulkitsen tämän PCA:n(jonka "muinaisreferenssit" perustuvat rohkean spekulatiivisesti nykyihmisten monimuotoisuuteen mikä projisoidaan rautakauden tasolle) niin että:
Izhorian_2 ja Izhorian_3 tulivat varmaan Kannakselta mutta edustavat vaihtelevissa määrin erilaisia osaväestöjä mitä alueella asui esim. Izhorian_3 voisi edustaa vahvasti I1-L258-pohjaista väestöä Kannakselta mutta "jalasjärveläinen" Izhorian_1 voisi edustaa pikemminkin CTS4329-pohjaista "lokaalia" jonka geenit muodostivat koillis/pohjoispirkkalaisen perimätyypin ytimen joka olisi levinnyt ympäri Hämettä ja Varsinais-Suomeakin, saamelaisista puhumattakaan. Yhteneväisyys Jalasjärveen johtuisi lähinnä siitä, että samanlaisia tekijöitä oli pelissä kummallakin alueella

Tässä vielä keskiarvot:

Koodi: Valitse kaikki

Izhorian_1,0.1314660,0.0903820,0.0882465,0.0778430,0.0320055,0.0230085,0.0103405,0.0158070,0.0013295,-0.0263330,0.0040595,-0.0055450,0.0173935,0.0166520,-0.0024430,-0.0077565,-0.0174065,-0.0010770,0.0014455,0.0007500,-0.0001245,-0.0026585,0.0010475,-0.0010845,0.0063465
Izhorian_2,0.1293790,0.0819193,0.0906347,0.0816113,0.0286207,0.0201733,0.0088517,0.0156917,0.0016363,-0.0263027,0.0046010,-0.0081930,0.0186820,0.0062390,-0.0041167,0.0145850,0.0140380,-0.0021957,-0.0019693,0.0060860,0.0017883,0.0018133,0.0056287,0.0036550,0.0027143
Izhorian_3,0.1320348,0.0891129,0.0901318,0.0764703,0.0301978,0.0250652,0.0117801,0.0167878,0.0016874,-0.0302512,0.0052778,-0.0105467,0.0196230,0.0127987,-0.0037323,0.0021050,-0.0030316,0.0003801,0.0002359,0.0007192,0.0042114,-0.0010355,0.0038207,0.0002710,0.0021255


Ymmärrän kyllä että Jaskalla on lähellä sydäntä unelma CTS8565:n alkusavolaisuudesta ja alkusaamelaisuudesta, mutta kun otetaan huomioon että pohjois/itäsavolaiset saivat linjan myöhään ja sen lisäksi mahdollisesti voimakkaasti kainulais-varsinaissuomalaistuneilta ja mikseipä saamelaistuneiltakin yksilöiltä Oulujoelta niin ei kai voida väittää että alkuperäiset geenit olisivat säilyneet nimenomaan savolaisissa. Mänttä-Vilppulalaiset tms. voivat ansaita enemmän tuota kunniaa jota Jaska antaa savolaisille.

Inkerinsuomalaiset muuten jakautuvat identtisin tavoin noihin kolmeen ryhmään. Vaikka on väitetty että ortodoksit ja luterilaiset eivät Inkerissä sekoittuneet, tämä lienee puppua.

Inkeroisilla on inkerinsuomalaisiin verrattuna kai enemmän vatjalaisperimää mutta jää hyvin hämäräksi mitä kuvio tarkoittaa. Ovatko savakot jotain mikkeliläisiä Tuukkalanhämäläinen-Kalifi linjalla? olisivat kai lähempänä Jalasjärveä kuin Kalifia.


https://i.imgur.com/Fh5ihxO.png

[Vastandus]

Jalasjärven ja Izhorian_1-ryhmän samankaltaisuus on muuten todella mielenkiintoinen asia. Komi voipi liittyä mm. ananiinovaikutteisiin Kannaksella ja N1b-isälinjaan. Itäeurooppalaisvaikute ei mene täysin VIII9-näytteen piikkiin, mutta tämä voi olla sattumaakin.

Target: Izhorian_1
Distance: 1.7011% / 0.01701074 | R5P
31.2 Ancient_West_Finn_B
25.2 Russia_IA_Ingria.SG:s19_VIII9_1_noUDG.SG__AD_137__Cov_15.65%
22.6 Russia_Sunghir_Medieval.SG:Sunghir6_noUDG.SG__AD_1137__Cov_94.87%
21.0 Komi:652_R02C01

Target: Jalasjärvi_scaled
Distance: 1.8145% / 0.01814548 | R5P
48.6 Ancient_West_Finn_B
21.6 Russia_IA_Ingria.SG:s19_VIII9_1_noUDG.SG__AD_137__Cov_15.65%
14.4 Russia_Sunghir_Medieval.SG:Sunghir6_noUDG.SG__AD_1137__Cov_94.87%
12.2 Komi:652_R02C01
3.2 Finland_Levanluhta:JK1968_noUDG__AD_550__Cov_31.42%

Simulaatio uussuomalaiselle perimä-aallolle joka keskittyy sisämaan länsisuomalaisiin ei sisällä Sunghiriä, mutta se on kuitenkin vain simulaatio.

Target: Ancient_West-Central_Finn
Distance: 2.9667% / 0.02966693 | R5P
48.0 Russia_IA_Ingria.SG:s19_VIII9_1_noUDG.SG__AD_137__Cov_15.65%
36.4 Komi:652_R02C01
15.6 Ancient_West_Finn_B

Nämä referenssit kuitenkin linjaavat perimävaatimuuksia. Uskoisin että tämä aalto syrjäytti perimää myös lounaisella välimurrevyöhykkeellä. Izhorian_1 on pätevä lähde myös CHS119-näytteelle Turusta joka voi hyvin olla Aimo Koivusen sukua eikä åboriginaaleja.

Target: Finland_Turku_EarlyModern:CHS119__AD_1540__Cov_21.00%
Distance: 3.1955% / 0.03195483 | R4P
61.6 Izhorian_1
20.6 Sweden_Viking.SG:vik_stg021_noUDG.SG__AD_1031__Cov_90.19%
14.4 Ancient_West_Finn_B
3.4 Finland_Levanluhta:JK1968_noUDG__AD_550__Cov_31.42%

Izhorian_2 toisaalta ei suosi niinkään komia vaan Volga-Okaa sovituksissa. Kai tämä selittyisi mahdollisesti sillä, että VL62 on olemukseltaan eteläisempi kuin CTS4329.

Target: Izhorian_2
Distance: 0.9541% / 0.00954103 | R5P
29.8 Russia_VolgaOka_IA:BOL009__AD_295__Cov_76.14%
24.6 Serbia_Viminacium_Roman_elite_1.SG:R9673.SG__AD_150__Cov_64.87%
21.6 Ancient_West_Finn_B
10.2 Russia_VolgaOka_IA:BOL005__AD_219__Cov_49.59%
7.0 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_V10_2_noUDG.SG__BC_623__Cov_23.86%
6.8 Poland_Weklice_WielbarkCulture_Roman.SG:R10633.SG__AD_75__Cov_61.62%

[korhoant]

Noita Rautalammin Korhosia tutkiessani törmäsin tietoon, jonka mukaan yksi Korhonen olisi sieltä 1500-luvulla lähtenyt Inkerinmaalle. En kyllä enää jaksea muistaa lähtijän koko nimeä. Liittyisikkö tämä mitenkään tuohon käsiteltävään asiaan??

[Jaska]

Jaska ei ole tainnut huomata että CTS8565:n juuritasot ovat kaakkoisia eivätkä pohjoisia. Jos sama pätee myös CTS4329:ään niin sanoisin että pohjoinen todennäköisyys romahtaa.

Kaakkoinen niin kuin Thaimaa, vai niin kuin Moskova, vai niin kuin Kymenlaakso? Jälkimmäinen on edelleen pohjoisempana kuin Inkerinmaa. Eli mitä tarkoitat kaakkoisella ja mihin dataan väitteesi perustuu?

Ymmärrän kyllä että Jaskalla on lähellä sydäntä unelma CTS8565:n alkusavolaisuudesta ja alkusaamelaisuudesta, mutta kun otetaan huomioon että pohjois/itäsavolaiset saivat linjan myöhään ja sen lisäksi mahdollisesti voimakkaasti kainulais-varsinaissuomalaistuneilta ja mikseipä saamelaistuneiltakin yksilöiltä Oulujoelta niin ei kai voida väittää että alkuperäiset geenit olisivat säilyneet nimenomaan savolaisissa. Mänttä-Vilppulalaiset tms. voivat ansaita enemmän tuota kunniaa jota Jaska antaa savolaisille.

Mikään ei ole lähellä sydäntäni, paitsi totuus ja faktat.
Eli kerropa todisteesi väitteidesi tueksi: millä perusteella CTS8565 olisi päätynyt Savon alueelle myöhään muualta?

Autosomaalitason kuvaajat eivät tietenkään voi todistaa yhtään mitään isälinjoista, kuten kaikki oikein hyvin tiedämme. Nyt näyttää, että sinä vain rakennat oletuksia oletuksien päälle - sellainen himmeli ei tietenkään kelpaa todisteeksi yhtään mistään.

[Vastandus]

Kaakkoinen niin kuin Thaimaa, vai niin kuin Moskova, vai niin kuin Kymenlaakso? Jälkimmäinen on edelleen pohjoisempana kuin Inkerinmaa. Eli mitä tarkoitat kaakkoisella ja mihin dataan väitteesi perustuu?

Projektidataan perustuu. Kaakkoinen niin kuin Kymeenlakso, Tver, Udmurtia, Kannas ja Mantsinsaari. Nämä haarat ovat siis pirkkalaista muinaisempia.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=BY18114
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=BY30394

Tämä on tosin pienoinen poikkeus: löytyy sekä Kymenlaaksosta että Lapista

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y30513

CTS1152 onkin jo huomattavasti läntisempi. Tässä siis vain vanhat ja myös suhteellisen harvinaiset alahaarat.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y20910 <- Viitasaari
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y91676 <- lähinnä Pirkanmaa + 1 Pohjois-Savo
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... p=BY194138 <- Kangasniemi-Kirkkonummi linja
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... p=FGC65190 <- Padasjoki-Helsinki linja + Lappee
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y18414 <- Viitasaari taas
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... p=FT345966 <- Liperi
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=BY22141 <- Joensuu-Etelä-Pohjanmaa linja
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=FT5834 <- Pirkanmaa ja Kanta-Häme
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=Y161866 <- Keski-Suomi ja Pohjois-Pirkanmaa
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y19097 <- yleisesti Häme ja Savo

Nämä alahaarat eivät siis ole vain pirkkahämäläisiä, mutta levikki silti kattaa lännen siinä missä idänkin, ei ole mitään syytä miksei kattaisi.
Menestyksellisen CTS3223-alahaaran juuressa kuitenkin on pirkanmaalaishaara mikä on mielestäni merkittävin asia koko jutussa.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... ?snp=BY549

On epäselvää, mistä oma alaahaarasi tämän alla on peräisin. Oulujoki on yksi mahdollisuus joka pitäisi mielestäni ottaa vakavasti. Todistusaineisto ei toki riitä todistamaan sitä, mutta voidaan sanoa että se on yhteensopiva datan kanssa.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Z34986

Autosomaalitason kuvaajat eivät tietenkään voi todistaa yhtään mitään isälinjoista, kuten kaikki oikein hyvin tiedämme. Nyt näyttää, että sinä vain rakennat oletuksia oletuksien päälle - sellainen himmeli ei tietenkään kelpaa todisteeksi yhtään mistään.

Isälinjat kuitenkin kertovat muuttoliikkeistä. Jos CTS4329 olisi levinnyt Inkeristä Pirkanmaalle ja koillispirkanmaalaisilla ja eteläpohjalaisilla on PCA:lla samankaltaisuutta muinaisinkeriläisen VIII9-näytteen kanssa, niin sanoisin että on hyvin mahdollista että asiat voivat liittyä toisiinsa. Hypoteesin tarkoitus on pohjistaa näkemystä, eikä itsessään todistaa. Jos esimerkiksi Valkeakosken Toppolanmäen vainajalla oli CTS8565 ja enemmän samankaltaisuutta muinais-Inkerin VIII9-näytteeseen kuin Luistarilla oli niin tämä tukisi hypoteesiä että tämä muutti suomalaista geeniperimää kyseiseen suuntaan.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Noita Rautalammin Korhosia tutkiessani törmäsin tietoon, jonka mukaan yksi Korhonen olisi sieltä 1500-luvulla lähtenyt Inkerinmaalle. En kyllä enää jaksea muistaa lähtijän koko nimeä. Liittyisikkö tämä mitenkään tuohon käsiteltävään asiaan??

Mielenkiintoista sinänsä, suuret muutothan tapahtuivat vasta 1600-luvulla. Yksi ukko ei toisaalta voinut sikäläiseen perimään juuri vaikuttaa.

[Jaska]

Kaakkoinen niin kuin Thaimaa, vai niin kuin Moskova, vai niin kuin Kymenlaakso? Jälkimmäinen on edelleen pohjoisempana kuin Inkerinmaa. Eli mitä tarkoitat kaakkoisella ja mihin dataan väitteesi perustuu?

Projektidataan perustuu. Kaakkoinen niin kuin Kymeenlakso, Tver, Udmurtia, Kannas ja Mantsinsaari. Nämä haarat ovat siis pirkkalaista muinaisempia.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=BY18114
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=BY30394

Tämä on tosin pienoinen poikkeus: löytyy sekä Kymenlaaksosta että Lapista

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y30513

CTS1152 onkin jo huomattavasti läntisempi. Tässä siis vain vanhat ja myös suhteellisen harvinaiset alahaarat.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y20910 <- Viitasaari
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y91676 <- lähinnä Pirkanmaa + 1 Pohjois-Savo
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... p=BY194138 <- Kangasniemi-Kirkkonummi linja
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... p=FGC65190 <- Padasjoki-Helsinki linja + Lappee
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y18414 <- Viitasaari taas
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... p=FT345966 <- Liperi
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=BY22141 <- Joensuu-Etelä-Pohjanmaa linja
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=FT5834 <- Pirkanmaa ja Kanta-Häme
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... np=Y161866 <- Keski-Suomi ja Pohjois-Pirkanmaa
https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Y19097 <- yleisesti Häme ja Savo

Nämä alahaarat eivät siis ole vain pirkkahämäläisiä, mutta levikki silti kattaa lännen siinä missä idänkin, ei ole mitään syytä miksei kattaisi.
Menestyksellisen CTS3223-alahaaran juuressa kuitenkin on pirkanmaalaishaara mikä on mielestäni merkittävin asia koko jutussa.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... ?snp=BY549

On epäselvää, mistä oma alaahaarasi tämän alla on peräisin. Oulujoki on yksi mahdollisuus joka pitäisi mielestäni ottaa vakavasti. Todistusaineisto ei toki riitä todistamaan sitä, mutta voidaan sanoa että se on yhteensopiva datan kanssa.

https://visual-dna.net/maps/fennoscandi ... snp=Z34986

Satunnaisia harvoja näytteitä siellä täällä. Mikäs tuossa aineistossa sinusta vastustaa Savoa alkukotina? Siitä Etelä-Savon kauttahan muinaiskarjalaiset ja muinaisvepsäläisetkin ovat itään ja kaakkoon levinneet ja vieneet linjoja mukanaan.

Preussnerin uudessa maakuntadatassa CTS8565 on selvästi yleisin savolaismurteiden alueella ja selvästi harvinaisempi etelämpänä ja lännempänä.

Kanta-Häkkinen BY22114 (< BY22113 < Z34986) on ainakin Etelä-Savosta, enkä ole nähnyt mitään perusteita johtaa noita varhaisempiakaan mutaatioita sen pohjoisempaa. Tunnettu savolainen asutusliike on tietysti levittänyt monia näistä mutaatioista moneen suuntaan, aina Lappiin ja Keski-Skandinaviaan saakka.

Olennaista ei siis ole, mistä kaikkialta eri mutaatioita löytyy, vaan missä ne ovat syntyneet, eli minne keskittyvät veljes- ja setälinjat kussakin mutaatioportaassa. Aina sitä ei tietenkään ole mahdollista saada selville, mutta Occamin mukaan paikallinen jatkuvuus olisi uskottavampi kuin edestakaisin sahaaminen halki maan, jos aineisto sallii kummankin tulkinnan.

Autosomaalitason kuvaajat eivät tietenkään voi todistaa yhtään mitään isälinjoista, kuten kaikki oikein hyvin tiedämme. Nyt näyttää, että sinä vain rakennat oletuksia oletuksien päälle - sellainen himmeli ei tietenkään kelpaa todisteeksi yhtään mistään.

Isälinjat kuitenkin kertovat muuttoliikkeistä. Jos CTS4329 olisi levinnyt Inkeristä Pirkanmaalle ja koillispirkanmaalaisilla ja eteläpohjalaisilla on PCA:lla samankaltaisuutta muinaisinkeriläisen VIII9-näytteen kanssa, niin sanoisin että on hyvin mahdollista että asiat voivat liittyä toisiinsa. Hypoteesin tarkoitus on pohjistaa näkemystä, eikä itsessään todistaa. Jos esimerkiksi Valkeakosken Toppolanmäen vainajalla oli CTS8565 ja enemmän samankaltaisuutta muinais-Inkerin VIII9-näytteeseen kuin Luistarilla oli niin tämä tukisi hypoteesiä että tämä muutti suomalaista geeniperimää kyseiseen suuntaan.

Mitä enemmän muinaisnäytteitä saadaan, sitä kirjavammiksi muuttuvat yleensä tulokset. Samassa väestössä on yleensä monia eri isälinjoja, ja riippuu täysin sattumasta, missä järjestyksessä ne jäävät tutkijoiden haaviin (vrt. tapaus Jamnaja ja nuorakeramiikka).

Vain jos IBD-taso osoittaisi, että joku muuttaja on jossain kauempana asuvan poika, isälinja korreloisi hetkellisesti autosomaalisen profiilin kanssa. Yhteys tietysti heikkenee lisää joka sukupolvessa. Autosomaalisesti varsinaissuomalaiset I- ja N-miehet muistuttavat toisiaan, ja samoin autosomaalisesti savolaiset I- ja N-miehet muistuttavat toisiaan. Sama isälinja on merkityksetön.

Kuten sanottu, pitäisi löytyä ainakin kaksi primaaria jälkeläislinjaa vain Inkeristä, että CTS4329:n syntyä siellä voitaisiin alkaa pitää edes vaihtoehtona. Edelleen kaikki viittaa pohjoisemmaksi.

[Kinaporin kalifi]

Inkeroisalueeseen on historiallisesti rajoittunut Lopskaja, josta Kuzmin toteaa:

"Ruhtinas Jaroslavin peruskirjasta (Ustav Jaroslava o mosteh) tiedetään, että ainakin 1200-luvulla Novgorodin ruhtinaskunta oli jaettu hallinnollisesti 19 sadannekseen, joista yksi oli Lopʹskaja sta eli Lapin sadannes...Myöhemmin Novgorodin ja Puolan kuninkaan Kazimirin sopimuskirjeessä vuodelta 1471 mainitaan Loptsa eli Lopskaja volostʹ (suom. Lapin volosti) -niminen aluehallinnollinen yksikkö, jonka rajanaapureina oli Isurinmaa lännessä ja Laatokanlinnan Olhavajoen seutu idässä. Pohjoisessa Lapin volosti rajoittui Laatokkaan ja Nevajoen alkulähteisiin...asiakirjassa vuodelta 1500 Lopskij-pogostassa Lavujajoen saarella oli olemassa Potašovo v Sosari (”Suosaarella”) -niminen kylä, jossa asui Potaš Lopin, ja Laatokanlinnan Gorodenskin pogostan Legmasarʹ-kylässä (*Lehmäsaari) asui Gureiko Lopin (PKVP: 12, 259). Lähellä Laatokanlinnaa sijaitsee nykyäänkin Lapino-niminen kylä."

https://www.sgr.fi/susa/94/SUSA94.pdf

Lopinit asuvat ilmeisesti Suosaarella ja Lehmäsaarella, joten alueen kieli on ollut imsu ennen venäjää. Paperi ei ota kantaa siihen, ovatko CTS8565-näytteet erityisen itäisiä inkeroisalueen puitteissa, eikä sillä tässä vaiheessa enää varmaan ole merkitystäkään. Voisi ehkä kuitenkin olla mahdollista, että alueen nimi Lappi liittyy karjalaiseen tapaan kutsua pohjoispuolisia karjalaisryhmiäkin lappalaisiksi ja alueen asukkaat olisivat muuttaneet Lopskajaan jostain pohjoisen CTS8565-rikkaalta karjalaisalueelta?

[Vastandus]

Satunnaisia harvoja näytteitä siellä täällä. Mikäs tuossa aineistossa sinusta vastustaa Savoa alkukotina? Siitä Etelä-Savon kauttahan muinaiskarjalaiset ja muinaisvepsäläisetkin ovat itään ja kaakkoon levinneet ja vieneet linjoja mukanaan.

Bayesilainen periaatteeni vaatii että kaikki data huomioidaan koska kaikella datalla on arvoa, myäs "satunnaisilla harvoilla näytteillä". Sanoisin että tuollainen mitäpä-väliä-tuollakin-on asenne on Suomessa kiusallisen yleinen, mutta tämä menee filosofian puolelle. En osaa kommentoida muinaiskarjalaisten ja muinaisvepsäläisten liikkeistä koska me emme niistä tiedä varmuudella kovin paljon. Omat henkilökohtaiset uskomukset toki ovat oma asia mutta nämä eivät ole dataa eikä niitä tarvitse huomioida koska ne eivät ole kumottavissa.

Preussnerin uudessa maakuntadatassa CTS8565 on selvästi yleisin savolaismurteiden alueella ja selvästi harvinaisempi etelämpänä ja lännempänä.

Voisi johtua mm. geneettisestä pullonkaulasta ja perustajavaikutuksesta. Yleisyyden perusteellahan on aiemmin päätelty että länsieurooppalainen R1b on baskeilta peräisin koska näillä oli perustajavaikutus. Yleisyys kyllä on dataa, mutta ei sellaista jolla on enemmän painoarvoa kuin varhaishaarojen levikillä tai inkeroisten CTS4329:llä, tai sillä että Savon yleisimmän haaran varhaisempi taso näyttää hyvin pirkkalaiselta. Pitää ottaa huomioon kokonaiskuva.

Olennaista ei siis ole, mistä kaikkialta eri mutaatioita löytyy, vaan missä ne ovat syntyneet, eli minne keskittyvät veljes- ja setälinjat kussakin mutaatioportaassa. Aina sitä ei tietenkään ole mahdollista saada selville, mutta Occamin mukaan paikallinen jatkuvuus olisi uskottavampi kuin edestakaisin sahaaminen halki maan, jos aineisto sallii kummankin tulkinnan.

En kyllä ainakaan usko, että tuo paikallinen jatkuvuus näkyisi erityisen vahvasti autosomaaliperimässä ja jos ei siinä, niin ei kai ole mitään syytä miksi sen pitäisi näkyä isälinjassa.

Mitä enemmän muinaisnäytteitä saadaan, sitä kirjavammiksi muuttuvat yleensä tulokset. Samassa väestössä on yleensä monia eri isälinjoja, ja riippuu täysin sattumasta, missä järjestyksessä ne jäävät tutkijoiden haaviin (vrt. tapaus Jamnaja ja nuorakeramiikka).

Vain jos IBD-taso osoittaisi, että joku muuttaja on jossain kauempana asuvan poika, isälinja korreloisi hetkellisesti autosomaalisen profiilin kanssa. Yhteys tietysti heikkenee lisää joka sukupolvessa. Autosomaalisesti varsinaissuomalaiset I- ja N-miehet muistuttavat toisiaan, ja samoin autosomaalisesti savolaiset I- ja N-miehet muistuttavat toisiaan. Sama isälinja on merkityksetön.

Tässä mallissa kirjavuutta tarvitaan oikeastaan aika vähän. Tosin sen ymmärtäminen voi olla haastaavaa.
Eli periaatteessa "alussa" suomenkielinen väestö Länsi-Suomessa olisi muistuttanut nykyistä enemmän WHG-painotteisia metsästäjä-keräilijöitä(lähinnä kai silti +L1022 pohjalla) vaikka toki tunnetuilla esihistoriallisilla lisillä Virosta ja Ruotsista(L550, I1 jne) jotka liittyvät arkeologiaan ja kieleen. Sisämaassa olisi tosin ollut enemmän levistyyppisiä asukkaita, eli väestö olisi ollut kirjava.
Tämä metsästäjäsuomalaisuus näkyisi Luistarin geeneissä erityisesti, tai ainakin vahvemmin.
Mutta, jokin ihmisryhmä Inkeristä jolla olisi ollut PCA:lla baltoslaavilais-komilaisia vivahteita olisi muuttanut Länsi-Suomeen ja ajanut alas (lähinnä) sisämaan perimää mutta hiukan myös puskenut Varsinais-Suomenkin suuntaan välimurrevyöhykkeelle. Tämän lisäksi uusia vaikutteita olisi saapunut vielä Ruotsista ja Baltiasta jotka olisivat edelleen kuihduttaneet Luistarin spesifistä genotyyppiä. Lopputulos olisi, että Luistarin genotyyppi voisi näkyä erityisen heikosti joissakin länsisuomalaisissa mutta ehkä silti vahvemmin rannikolla kuin jossain Mänttä-Vilppulassa.
Tämä on siis vain hypoteesi ja hypoteesi ei voi itsessään olla epätieteellinen jos odottaa tietellisen tulosten vahvistusta tahi kumoamista. Sanoisin että tämä on todella yhteensopiva sen kanssa mitä tutkijat ovat sanoneet.
Toinen hypoteesiin liittyvä "ennustus" on - että tuukkalanhämäläiset tai ts. mikkelinhämäläiset olisivat poikenneet geneettisesti samaan suuntaan kuin Jalasjärvi, eli näiden genotyyppi olisi vahvemmin jäljitellyt muinais-Inkerin näytettä - koillispirkanmaalaisvaikutteen johdosta. En kai pysty todistamaan, että nämä inkeriläiset ovat savakkoja saati sellaisia Mikkelin länsipuolelta, mutta vähän siltä vaikuttaa.

Target: Ingrian_Finns_1
Distance: 1.6675% / 0.01667469
31.6 Russia_IA_Ingria.SG:s19_VIII9_1_noUDG.SG__AD_137__Cov_15.65%
28.6 Ancient_West_Finn_B
15.6 Komi:652_R02C01
10.0 Sweden_Viking.SG:vik_stg021_noUDG.SG__AD_1031__Cov_90.19%
7.2 Russia_Sunghir_Medieval.SG:Sunghir6_noUDG.SG__AD_1137__Cov_94.87%
7.0 Russia_VolgaOka_IA:BOL005__AD_219__Cov_49.59%

Outoa kyllä, levistä tulee vain "muinaissuomalaisen" kautta. Siperiaa yleisesti aika vähän.